(Compilation of posts by Shane C. or UBFree., former Los Angeles UBF, at http://www.voy.com/60734/ from 2003-2005.)
Date Posted: 23:24:49 08/27/03 Wed
Subject: Further testimony...friends or business partners?
In reply to: Mike K. 's message, "Re: Question about LeHigh" on 00:29:24 08/27/03 Wed
As far as friendship in UBF let me add my own personal testimony to this point. I was a student leader in one of the west coast chapters. When I left I tried to do it discreetly. I didn't leave to go after a life of sin, I didn't leave out of any selfish ambition. In fact I could have fed my own ego for years to come if I would have stayed. BUT, As soon as I left, several of the KOREAN missionaries told some of my American friends, still in UBF, not to associate with me. They said "I would be a bad influnce on them", they offered other slanderous remarks about me. These words were told to me by several reliable friends. (This also raised red flags to my friends and they ended up leaving as they knew me and they knew the Korean leaders were lying.) ...
So what is my point? My point is that American students do not have true friendships with Korean missionaries. Many Americans are naive to UBF and think they are friends. But, Korean UBF missionaries view it in another way. How can we describe it? I'm not sure. Maybe more of a business relationship. Students are clients to be wooed into the UBF business and then used for other selfish reasons. The UBF relation dynamic is very close to biker gangs and the
mafia. I have done research on the Hell's Angels, did you know that when a member leaves the "gang" he's never seen
again by the other members. This is really the same dynamic as UBF. Once you leave UBF, thats it! Whats the point
with you, your trash, your a "waist of time". In conclusion, I would say that that UBF relationships are closer to
the Hell's angels or the mafia then a normal Christian church.
Date Posted: 23:26:37 09/29/03 Mon
Subject: Re: LA ubf failure
In reply to: Nick T. 's message, "LA ubf failure" on 12:16:49 09/29/03 Mon
I was in LA UBF for seven full years from 1989-1997. In a nutshell what I observed was this: High growth from 1989-1993 with few Korean missionaries and a more relaxed attitude. But as the numbers grew the more the desire of Ike Kim to rule LAUBF "Chicago" style. The more Korean missionaries came, the more poisoned the atmosphere. IN fact, many of the Korean missionaries did not get along with each other. In anycase the AMerican student leaders had enough and in 1993 there was a reform revolt. Eventually, all left and now the LAUBF is nothing more then a Korean club with a few weak willed American yes men.
Date Posted: 18:52:45 08/04/04 Wed
Subject: Any news about Isaac Kim and LA UBF?
My, how quickley time moves. Its been 8 years since I left the LA UBF. I married a Korean missionary, but she has almost completely given up UBF and we are now in a healthy Christian church. Last year I went into the LA UBF website out of curiosty. Nothing has changed they are still numbers based and they all repent of the same phony miserable
things: not fishing enough, not getting up early enough etc. etc. I know that IKIM moved his center from Long Beac
h to Downey but outside of that I have no idea whats going on.
Date Posted: 15:13:05 10/11/04 Mon
Author: UBFree/Shane C.
Subject: Answered, but what are the ramifications?
In reply to: Brian K.'s message, "Already answered" on 13:33:31 10/11/04 Mon
Since Iam identifying specific people in UBF, I feel it only fair that I reveal my own identity. My name is Shane C., I was in the LA UBF from 1989-1997. I came to know the UBF system quite well. I was an intern shepherd from 1993-1997. I am quite aware of UBF beleifs and practices. And Brian, I must say it is not the rosey picture you have presented on this website.
You mentioned that "you would not speak like this" referring to John Kwon's statement about "obey me like you obey God". Let me add context to his statement. In our conversation, John Kwon fully and aggressivly beleived in the idea of "obey me like you obey God." In otherwords your "shepherd" will decide such things as: where you live, your major, who you marry, when you can see your family members, when you can go on vacation and how long, etc. Every major decision on your life(and even minor ones) is given over to your "shepherd". Not only did John Kwon NOT deny that UBF was based on pyramid structure, he aggresivly ADVOCATED it as the biblical basis for church structure.
Brian, I am telling you the truth, I am not lying! The "shepherds" in LA asked John the following question: "what if UBF asks us to do something agaisnt our conscience?" John's answer was thus, "Absolutely obey your shepherd despite you conscience." He said "Let the curse fall on me(John Kwon). In otherwords, even if you go agaisnt your conscience, and even if you sin, God will not hold you accountable because you were obeying your "shepherd." This is called the doctrine of "covering".
Brian, I found this doctrine to be taught in every UBF I visited. Even in Korea, where I stayed and taught for one year. I am telling you as a witness to everything I have heard and seen in UBF. Brian, what are the ramifications of such a church based on absolute obediance to man and the doctrine of "covering". I can list some ramifications but I would rather read your reply first.
Date Posted: 15:45:33 10/11/04 Mon
Author: UBFree/Shane C.
Subject: Re: request for more info
In reply to: Joe 's message, "Re: request for more info" on 14:06:48 10/11/04 Mon
John Kwon was/is Isaac Kim's second in command. He was very zealous in advocating UBF ideology and culture. I beleive that he had a genuine christian conversion but that he was born again into the UBF ideology and thus knows nothing other then UBF. This does not excuse faulty doctrine but helps put him and his doctrine in context. I appreciated his zeal for God but could not agree with his rigid adhearance to UBF doctrine.
The conversation that I posted was had during a time of upheavel in the LA UBF, when many of the long time AMerican "shepherds" began to question the UBF doctrine and practices. Again, his take at the time, was that your shepherd had the role of God in your life. NOT that your shepherd was God, but he had all the authority of God in your life.
During this time another "shepherd" raised the issue of "Being led by the Holy Spirit". Could you be led by the Holy Spirit apart from your shepherd? He thought that this was an immature attitude towards scripture and "shepherding".
Date Posted: 00:34:17 10/15/04 Fri
Subject: Re: Systematic Obedience Training
In reply to: PECAS 's message, "Systematic Obedience Training" on 21:11:16 10/14/04 Thu
Are there any examples? My friend, we could fill a book with examples. What you described is standard operating procedure in UBF and has gone on for decades. While in UBF for seven years, I saw missionaries choose majors, life long marriage partners, jobs and many other things for 'shepherds'.
The issue of being led by the Holy SPirit as opposed to following orders of your 'shepherd' was raised by 'shepherds' in the LA UBF. The missionaries scoffed at such an idea. They believed that the Holy Spirit would only work through the pyramid structure of UBF. And if you tried to make decisions outside of the pyramid structure, you were then outside of the will of the Holy Spirit.
If you hold to the pyramid model, the people at the top have enourmous power.
Date Posted: 21:20:31 10/15/04 Fri
Subject: Re: Systematic Obedience Training
In reply to: PECAS 's message, "Re: Systematic Obedience Training" on 19:09:05 10/15/04 Fri
>Do you have a testimony about your experiences in LA
There are some postings that describe my experience in UBF. I was an easy target for cult recruitment. I was new to the area, alone with no family. I came from a broken dysfunctional family and was looking for love in a family environment. I went through the love bombing stage for about 1-2 years. Then the control and manipulation started to grow. Finally in 1997 I felt so suffocated by UBF that I just had to leave. After the love bombing stage UBF is a miserable place to be. Why? Because UBF has turned Jesus into a Moses. They take every example of Jesus and turn it into a rule or a law. And if you don't keep that rule or law you are "unspiritual" or "disobediant" or "easy-going". How can one be happy living under such a yoke of slavery? UBF Koreans totally miss the intent of Jesus. Moses brought the law, but Jesus brought "grace and truth".
Date Posted: 10:49:21 11/29/04 Mon
Subject: Re: Please continue to think
In reply to: Brother in Christ 's message, "Re: Please continue to think" on 09:10:26 11/29/04 Mon
What brother in Christ is saying is true. They will only push you as far as you can go. Some missionaries are better at it then others. But once they have you they WILL demand all sorts of things from you. Here is a typical real life example that I witnessed.
Jeff M.-1.Asked to move out of apartment into "commonlife"(standard). 2.Major changed from Chemistry to Pre-Med.(total disaster)3.Pressured to marry another sister at the center.(Also disaster, as he was not willing and they really put the screws on him) He eventually left UBF.
Once they have you: majors are changed, living locations change, you are sent to various places, spouses are chosen, you name it and they will choose it for you.