(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2006.)
Name: ex member msu ubf
Comments: I too was taken in by the attention and love bombing of ubf. I can say that I always felt something was not really right at msu ubf. I finally put my finger on the problem there two years later. The leadership was in a power struggle to rule over the sheep and their lives. I met some good people there for the two years I was involved there. They want you to spend countless hours feeding sheep and attenting their fuctions to create a number to make it look good for the leaders. I could never figure out why people make a committment to poverty and think this is god's way of blessing them. If creating tremendous debts and self sacrifice will get you a little recognition with ubf then this is something I never did need and feel deeply sorry for those that have been taken and lost many good years of their lives to this group. find a reputable church and attend there and don't look back at all the controlling things of your past god will bring you back stronger than before. keep the faith. may god bring peace tou your lives moving forward .
Tuesday, October 23, 2007
Black Sheep
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2006.)
Name: Black Sheep
E-mail address: lisaww7@hotmail.com
Comments: I am writing this not to judge any one who is a ubf member but out of my own heart. I feel sorry for some of the people there. I have a sister who is very actively involved. I know shes a very good person at heart, but I feel she is being burdened by the pressures of other members "brain washing". I went to one of the conf. and they were studing the bible for over 16 hrs a day. and I could not take it so I had to leave the conf. People were very upset that we left for a few hours and they gave us havoc for it. I was just coming as a visitor, but everyone was refering to me as a sheep. Which ironicly should be a great compliment because jesus even in the bible was a sheep ( the lamb of God who takes away our sin) But in their terms a sheep is a baby christian. I know I have a lot of spiritual growing to do In God. But that should be a personal thing. A lot of people in UBF seem like they are boastful about how many bible students (sheep) they have. Encouragement is one thing, but God wants us to be humble before him and others. Please read Matthew ..23.. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. If you want to bring someone to God I pray one does it with a pure heart and for the right reasons..... Matthew 6 verse 2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Name: Black Sheep
E-mail address: lisaww7@hotmail.com
Comments: I am writing this not to judge any one who is a ubf member but out of my own heart. I feel sorry for some of the people there. I have a sister who is very actively involved. I know shes a very good person at heart, but I feel she is being burdened by the pressures of other members "brain washing". I went to one of the conf. and they were studing the bible for over 16 hrs a day. and I could not take it so I had to leave the conf. People were very upset that we left for a few hours and they gave us havoc for it. I was just coming as a visitor, but everyone was refering to me as a sheep. Which ironicly should be a great compliment because jesus even in the bible was a sheep ( the lamb of God who takes away our sin) But in their terms a sheep is a baby christian. I know I have a lot of spiritual growing to do In God. But that should be a personal thing. A lot of people in UBF seem like they are boastful about how many bible students (sheep) they have. Encouragement is one thing, but God wants us to be humble before him and others. Please read Matthew ..23.. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. If you want to bring someone to God I pray one does it with a pure heart and for the right reasons..... Matthew 6 verse 2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Anonymous
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2005.)
Name: N/A
E-mail address: N/A
Comments: Hello, I will keep my name and email confidential, but at the same time I want to express my opinions about UBF. I was never officially a member of the church, but I did study one-to-one bible study with a long time Korean UBF member for quite some time. (3 years) I will not name the Missionary I had bible study with, due to legality/slander issues. I always believed that something was wrong with the Church. Something strange, not right, but I could never pinpoint exactly what was wrong. Some people might say, how could I judge UBF if I was never a actual active member, but even though I was not a member, I could sense something was really strange. I have been reading many of the websites regarding UBF, and personal ex-member testimonies and agree with many of the former members. I always kept a suspicious distance, and really never wanted to get close to the church. Yes, I was a little scared and unsure. I felt the only way to protect myself was to not get involved. I went to a few conferences, but that was about it. I recently stopped attending one to one bible study, and I am happy that I had the courage to stop cold-turkey, and not have to use UBF bible study as a emotional crutch in my life. Actually this was the second time I stopped one-to-one bible study with the same missionary. The first time was about two years ago. I stopped attending for roughly 6 to 8 months and this so called Missionary would call me every Sunday leaving me the same message like, "Have a Good Day", sometimes appear in front of my apartment building with his wife, and a few times even rang my doorbell. What a weird guy. Definitely a form of harrasment. Eventually he stopped, but silly me eventually went back for bible study with the same missionary, up until recently when I finally said to myself enough is enough. This is getting rediculous. The whole point of UBF is to make a person think and act like a robot. They want people to conform to their standards, and it you do not conform to their standards then they nicely rebuke you, as in my case. I believe that they really never kick people out, but only play psychological games with their sheep. I beieve the pupose of having weekly bible studies, sometimes four to five times a week as in my case, is so that some form of control can be imposed over the sheep. If the missionary believes that the sheep is rebellious, or not wanting to conform as in my case, then the weekly one-to-one bible studies will continue, and thats all. Other UBF programs will not be introduced to the sheep unless the Missionary believes that his/her brainwashing has taken effect. In my case the actual brainwashing of me never took place. I believe that if the Missionaries think that you are not 100% of the way they want you to be, then they are scared that if they bring you into other UBF meetings, bible studies etc, that somehow the rebellious sheep might tarnish, or bring down morale on the other sheep/members. At the same time if the Missionaries believe that you are not ready, they are also scared that they might lose a sheep by bringing them to quickly into the system. The sheep might get scared off. Basically the church is a system, and not really a Church in my opinion. It is all about THOUGHT CONTROL, MONEY, and NUMBERS (the more people the better) So if anyone is planning on joining UBF, my advice stay away and find a mainstream church. This church I believe does not really care for its members. But only uses them. Thank you,
Name: N/A
E-mail address: N/A
Comments: Hello, I will keep my name and email confidential, but at the same time I want to express my opinions about UBF. I was never officially a member of the church, but I did study one-to-one bible study with a long time Korean UBF member for quite some time. (3 years) I will not name the Missionary I had bible study with, due to legality/slander issues. I always believed that something was wrong with the Church. Something strange, not right, but I could never pinpoint exactly what was wrong. Some people might say, how could I judge UBF if I was never a actual active member, but even though I was not a member, I could sense something was really strange. I have been reading many of the websites regarding UBF, and personal ex-member testimonies and agree with many of the former members. I always kept a suspicious distance, and really never wanted to get close to the church. Yes, I was a little scared and unsure. I felt the only way to protect myself was to not get involved. I went to a few conferences, but that was about it. I recently stopped attending one to one bible study, and I am happy that I had the courage to stop cold-turkey, and not have to use UBF bible study as a emotional crutch in my life. Actually this was the second time I stopped one-to-one bible study with the same missionary. The first time was about two years ago. I stopped attending for roughly 6 to 8 months and this so called Missionary would call me every Sunday leaving me the same message like, "Have a Good Day", sometimes appear in front of my apartment building with his wife, and a few times even rang my doorbell. What a weird guy. Definitely a form of harrasment. Eventually he stopped, but silly me eventually went back for bible study with the same missionary, up until recently when I finally said to myself enough is enough. This is getting rediculous. The whole point of UBF is to make a person think and act like a robot. They want people to conform to their standards, and it you do not conform to their standards then they nicely rebuke you, as in my case. I believe that they really never kick people out, but only play psychological games with their sheep. I beieve the pupose of having weekly bible studies, sometimes four to five times a week as in my case, is so that some form of control can be imposed over the sheep. If the missionary believes that the sheep is rebellious, or not wanting to conform as in my case, then the weekly one-to-one bible studies will continue, and thats all. Other UBF programs will not be introduced to the sheep unless the Missionary believes that his/her brainwashing has taken effect. In my case the actual brainwashing of me never took place. I believe that if the Missionaries think that you are not 100% of the way they want you to be, then they are scared that if they bring you into other UBF meetings, bible studies etc, that somehow the rebellious sheep might tarnish, or bring down morale on the other sheep/members. At the same time if the Missionaries believe that you are not ready, they are also scared that they might lose a sheep by bringing them to quickly into the system. The sheep might get scared off. Basically the church is a system, and not really a Church in my opinion. It is all about THOUGHT CONTROL, MONEY, and NUMBERS (the more people the better) So if anyone is planning on joining UBF, my advice stay away and find a mainstream church. This church I believe does not really care for its members. But only uses them. Thank you,
Michelle (former Triton UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2005.)
Name: Michelle
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: I was a member of Triton UBF for 8 years, from 1992-2000, from the age of 16-24 years old. I believe that young people are idealistic and impressionable. I believe that UBF exploits this, and uses it to systematically prevent people from being individuals. I believe that it also inhibits young people from maturing as adults who are well balanced and able to make their own decisions. For 2 days i have been reading things on this website. I am sad to see that not many former members from Triton UBF have spoke up about the totalitatian environment that went on there. Personally, for me, the best medicine has been to not think about this at all. At the age of 24, i was ill prepared to live without the cult. I had been estranged from my family. The members of UBF were all of my friends. I was disgusted when a member told me that i had to move out of the apartment i shared with some "shepherdesses" because i had went to a night club and was exhibiting "unspiritual" behaviour. My name was on the lease! No one has the right to tell someone where to live, who to marry, where to work, where to go to school, what type of job to get, what ones life goal should be! young people should be left to freely make these descisions on their own. It is wrong to have others shun someone because they do not think as the leaders want them too. And equally as sad it is to not EXPOSE the evil deeds of the members! INCLUDING adultery! but NOT LET teenagers and young adults follow their heart and learn to associate with the opposite sex by dating!~ this, among other things, is why i left. Now, i am done with organised religion. It has tainted it for me. I have a lot of nightmares, I am studying the Wiccan religion. I believe that people are free to worship as they please, without fear of condemnation, whether it is the traditional American Christian God, or Gods who have been around for much longer. feel free to email me.
Name: Michelle
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: I was a member of Triton UBF for 8 years, from 1992-2000, from the age of 16-24 years old. I believe that young people are idealistic and impressionable. I believe that UBF exploits this, and uses it to systematically prevent people from being individuals. I believe that it also inhibits young people from maturing as adults who are well balanced and able to make their own decisions. For 2 days i have been reading things on this website. I am sad to see that not many former members from Triton UBF have spoke up about the totalitatian environment that went on there. Personally, for me, the best medicine has been to not think about this at all. At the age of 24, i was ill prepared to live without the cult. I had been estranged from my family. The members of UBF were all of my friends. I was disgusted when a member told me that i had to move out of the apartment i shared with some "shepherdesses" because i had went to a night club and was exhibiting "unspiritual" behaviour. My name was on the lease! No one has the right to tell someone where to live, who to marry, where to work, where to go to school, what type of job to get, what ones life goal should be! young people should be left to freely make these descisions on their own. It is wrong to have others shun someone because they do not think as the leaders want them too. And equally as sad it is to not EXPOSE the evil deeds of the members! INCLUDING adultery! but NOT LET teenagers and young adults follow their heart and learn to associate with the opposite sex by dating!~ this, among other things, is why i left. Now, i am done with organised religion. It has tainted it for me. I have a lot of nightmares, I am studying the Wiccan religion. I believe that people are free to worship as they please, without fear of condemnation, whether it is the traditional American Christian God, or Gods who have been around for much longer. feel free to email me.
JP
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2005.)
JP
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: Hey, I like what you guys are doing on this site. It really helped me to see the truth about UBF. One of the main reasons I'm leaving UBF is that they have no communion. Also, the leadership of the UBF kind of seemed weird to me. Again, I agree to mostly what this site has to say about UBF. Thanks UBF but no thanks. I don't need a twisted interpretation of the bible. I don't need a "shepherd" to find out what the will of God is. All I need is the good shepherd Jesus Christ to show me the way.
JP
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: Hey, I like what you guys are doing on this site. It really helped me to see the truth about UBF. One of the main reasons I'm leaving UBF is that they have no communion. Also, the leadership of the UBF kind of seemed weird to me. Again, I agree to mostly what this site has to say about UBF. Thanks UBF but no thanks. I don't need a twisted interpretation of the bible. I don't need a "shepherd" to find out what the will of God is. All I need is the good shepherd Jesus Christ to show me the way.
Monday, October 22, 2007
Walt (former Chicago UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2005.)
Name: Walt
Comments: In the 30 months or so I was involved with a Chicago UBF chapter I was employed in nearly every imaginable capacity with them - as a Bible student, a testimony sharer, conference messenger, music leader, drama writer/actor, and once a group Bible-study leader. Finally, after about two years, I met Jesus... but not through UBF, it was my local church I'd been attending on Sundays. And once my relationship with God began to flourish outside UBF, He began to convict me that it was time to leave their brand of burdensome manipulation behind and seek Him happily and wholeheartedly through a ministry I could support. I had always kept UBF at arms' length but had refused to read the things I knew were out there on the Internet about them, lest it cloud my judgment. Now that I've had the courage to read them, I'm fascinated and deeply frightened by what had been going on under my nose for so long. Keep up the good work!
Name: Walt
Comments: In the 30 months or so I was involved with a Chicago UBF chapter I was employed in nearly every imaginable capacity with them - as a Bible student, a testimony sharer, conference messenger, music leader, drama writer/actor, and once a group Bible-study leader. Finally, after about two years, I met Jesus... but not through UBF, it was my local church I'd been attending on Sundays. And once my relationship with God began to flourish outside UBF, He began to convict me that it was time to leave their brand of burdensome manipulation behind and seek Him happily and wholeheartedly through a ministry I could support. I had always kept UBF at arms' length but had refused to read the things I knew were out there on the Internet about them, lest it cloud my judgment. Now that I've had the courage to read them, I'm fascinated and deeply frightened by what had been going on under my nose for so long. Keep up the good work!
Freedom in Christ (former Los Angeles UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2005.)
Name: Freedom in Christ
Comments: At UBF the level of a believer's spititual maturity is measured according to how active and devoted that person is in the ministry. I believe this to be wrong. Spiritual maturity has nothing to do with works. It's not about how many Bible students one has, or how many weekly testimonies one writes. It's about seeing things the way God sees them, period. And the Great Commission is not about getting people to join your church or my church, either. It's about saving souls. I was a member of UBF in the Los Angeles area for two and a half years. During that time I was treated with much kindness, warmth and respect. Many there knew my life's story. In the few months prior to joining, I was a lonely, alcoholic porn actor who came very close to suicide. Incredibly, when I chose to leave UBF in order to attend another church that is nearer to my home, no one so much as asked me or even cared as to why I had made that choice. Everyone, including the senior missionaries, simply said their goodbyes and quickly forgot about me. And why? Because I was not considered to be a "useful" shepherd. I was not as active as others were, therefore I was not seen as a precious soul that God wants to keep from going astray. Simply put, in their eyes I was nothing more than just a number, an expendable number that could easily be replaced. How sad that people who call themselves "shepherds" could have such a distorted view about God's love for others. I truly pray that God opens their eyes and hearts to the truth, because in spite of their ignorance they genuinely love the Lord and wish to serve Him.
Name: Freedom in Christ
Comments: At UBF the level of a believer's spititual maturity is measured according to how active and devoted that person is in the ministry. I believe this to be wrong. Spiritual maturity has nothing to do with works. It's not about how many Bible students one has, or how many weekly testimonies one writes. It's about seeing things the way God sees them, period. And the Great Commission is not about getting people to join your church or my church, either. It's about saving souls. I was a member of UBF in the Los Angeles area for two and a half years. During that time I was treated with much kindness, warmth and respect. Many there knew my life's story. In the few months prior to joining, I was a lonely, alcoholic porn actor who came very close to suicide. Incredibly, when I chose to leave UBF in order to attend another church that is nearer to my home, no one so much as asked me or even cared as to why I had made that choice. Everyone, including the senior missionaries, simply said their goodbyes and quickly forgot about me. And why? Because I was not considered to be a "useful" shepherd. I was not as active as others were, therefore I was not seen as a precious soul that God wants to keep from going astray. Simply put, in their eyes I was nothing more than just a number, an expendable number that could easily be replaced. How sad that people who call themselves "shepherds" could have such a distorted view about God's love for others. I truly pray that God opens their eyes and hearts to the truth, because in spite of their ignorance they genuinely love the Lord and wish to serve Him.
James (former Toledo UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2005.)
Name: James
E-mail address: Driamspock@Yahoo.com
Comments: I was formerly in UBF and I hope I do not seem like I am judging UBF but, I was part of the UT chapter and I was only in it for about a year. The main reason why I left UBF is because I did not want to go to UT anymore. I decided I wanted to go to a private college and recieve my degree in nursing and my teacher told me that I have to hang around the PHD's and sheepards at the church and to stay at UT if I wanted to make it through life and to be a stronger man of Christ. I really hated it there. I could not tell them about my girl friend (which I am getting married to this August), I was looked down on for not going to church and going to work instead one sunday (I had to switch days because my cousin was killed in a car accident and the funeral was on that monday and I had to work so I switched with a friend and just to mention I was one of the bearers who carried the casket). Not only that, but like for example my Bible teacher was a hypocrit (not saying I am perfect but I was not a hypocrit about things). I would get "rebuked" for not reading my papers I wrote word for word (I would take notes down and go from there and sometimes I would get "rebuked" for not writing enough even though I felt I wrote my complete answere) and the one thing I really hated was that our minister, DR. Paul Hong made me feel so intimadated. You had to either call him Dr. or Shepard... and by the way, everyone there got angry when I did not want to be called a sheep and then my name. Sorry if my e mail sounds a little winney or anything but I thought that place was a cult. I could not date and I had to wait. I think God has blessed me with Holly and not to mention, I am a very happy ActiveCatholic (I am not saying cahtolics are the best relgion or anyhting becasue anyone who believes christ saved us is there in the ball park but I was just mentioning that I loved being a cahtolic). One other thing that I would like to point out is that I was a high school graduate of 2004 and when I started going to UBF I was only 18. I had to have a note from my mom permitting me to go to church [according to the Toledo UBF leader]. My point is, I believe if you want to learn about God, you don't have to have parental permission and besides that, I was legally and adult. If anyone wants to go to UBF thats fine, everyone has their right to worriship, don't get me wrong but, I don't feel you have to have parental permission to do.
Name: James
E-mail address: Driamspock@Yahoo.com
Comments: I was formerly in UBF and I hope I do not seem like I am judging UBF but, I was part of the UT chapter and I was only in it for about a year. The main reason why I left UBF is because I did not want to go to UT anymore. I decided I wanted to go to a private college and recieve my degree in nursing and my teacher told me that I have to hang around the PHD's and sheepards at the church and to stay at UT if I wanted to make it through life and to be a stronger man of Christ. I really hated it there. I could not tell them about my girl friend (which I am getting married to this August), I was looked down on for not going to church and going to work instead one sunday (I had to switch days because my cousin was killed in a car accident and the funeral was on that monday and I had to work so I switched with a friend and just to mention I was one of the bearers who carried the casket). Not only that, but like for example my Bible teacher was a hypocrit (not saying I am perfect but I was not a hypocrit about things). I would get "rebuked" for not reading my papers I wrote word for word (I would take notes down and go from there and sometimes I would get "rebuked" for not writing enough even though I felt I wrote my complete answere) and the one thing I really hated was that our minister, DR. Paul Hong made me feel so intimadated. You had to either call him Dr. or Shepard... and by the way, everyone there got angry when I did not want to be called a sheep and then my name. Sorry if my e mail sounds a little winney or anything but I thought that place was a cult. I could not date and I had to wait. I think God has blessed me with Holly and not to mention, I am a very happy ActiveCatholic (I am not saying cahtolics are the best relgion or anyhting becasue anyone who believes christ saved us is there in the ball park but I was just mentioning that I loved being a cahtolic). One other thing that I would like to point out is that I was a high school graduate of 2004 and when I started going to UBF I was only 18. I had to have a note from my mom permitting me to go to church [according to the Toledo UBF leader]. My point is, I believe if you want to learn about God, you don't have to have parental permission and besides that, I was legally and adult. If anyone wants to go to UBF thats fine, everyone has their right to worriship, don't get me wrong but, I don't feel you have to have parental permission to do.
chas (former Toledo UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2004.
Name: chas
E-mail address: chtaca2@lycos.com
Comments: I am a former member of UBF in Toledo Ohio. I believe that it should be fully understood by the Christian community at large that during my time there, almost 6 years, there was absolutely NO administering of the Lord's Supper or water baptism. (Water baptism was disallowed by M. Samuel Lee of Chicago because, according to him, there was too much controversy over the issue). These two sacraments are ALWAYS marks of a genuine church. Where they are absent and/or ignored a counterfeit for that church MUST exist. No present member can honestly deny this statement as fact. If these things have been instituted it would most likely have been due to outside pressure.
Name: chas
E-mail address: chtaca2@lycos.com
Comments: I am a former member of UBF in Toledo Ohio. I believe that it should be fully understood by the Christian community at large that during my time there, almost 6 years, there was absolutely NO administering of the Lord's Supper or water baptism. (Water baptism was disallowed by M. Samuel Lee of Chicago because, according to him, there was too much controversy over the issue). These two sacraments are ALWAYS marks of a genuine church. Where they are absent and/or ignored a counterfeit for that church MUST exist. No present member can honestly deny this statement as fact. If these things have been instituted it would most likely have been due to outside pressure.
Sana (former Chicago UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2004.)
Name: Sana
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: I used to be part of the UBF ministry at Northeastern IL University.After 2 years I finally had the courage to call it quits.Thank God!I swear those people are a bunch of religious fanatics!All they do is brainwash people with their silly nonsense.I pray that people don't get involved with this crazy cult.UBF must be stopped!
Name: Sana
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: I used to be part of the UBF ministry at Northeastern IL University.After 2 years I finally had the courage to call it quits.Thank God!I swear those people are a bunch of religious fanatics!All they do is brainwash people with their silly nonsense.I pray that people don't get involved with this crazy cult.UBF must be stopped!
Young-Ae H.
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2005.)
Name: YoungAe H.
Comments: I left the UBF after almost 6 years... I met Jesus in the church for the first time not in the UBF. This helped me to leave UBF: believe me it wasn't easy thing to leave because UBF backslashes [backstabs] those people who left which I found very strange. I don't know whether I would have courage to leave UBF if I had met the Jesus in UBF for the first time. Clearly, they are doing wrong in the sense that they don't allow people have their own choice of lives and being UBF member together. I think I did a right thing for myself to leave there...... Useful web page...
Name: YoungAe H.
Comments: I left the UBF after almost 6 years... I met Jesus in the church for the first time not in the UBF. This helped me to leave UBF: believe me it wasn't easy thing to leave because UBF backslashes [backstabs] those people who left which I found very strange. I don't know whether I would have courage to leave UBF if I had met the Jesus in UBF for the first time. Clearly, they are doing wrong in the sense that they don't allow people have their own choice of lives and being UBF member together. I think I did a right thing for myself to leave there...... Useful web page...
Sunday, October 21, 2007
Eric R. (former German UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2003.)
Name: eric r.
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: hello brothers and sisters in Christ! Hi folks... It´s now 6years that I left ubf-Stuttgart/Germany. Thank you for your work on this website. May it be fruitful in any way. I see that there are so many wounded ex-ubf people out there ( naturally there are), and lots of emotional argueing ( just like in my head still sometimes..). But I myself did not suffer all these bad methods and subtle, verbal manipulations. But I saw, how my fellows were treated...what`s on my mind about ubf? "do you want us to go and pull them up? No! Because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them..." Don´t judge, don´t count sins, just name them, stand to Jesus , stand to the truth. Show spine ( german talks) greetings! If you want to mail, do it!
Name: eric r.
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: hello brothers and sisters in Christ! Hi folks... It´s now 6years that I left ubf-Stuttgart/Germany. Thank you for your work on this website. May it be fruitful in any way. I see that there are so many wounded ex-ubf people out there ( naturally there are), and lots of emotional argueing ( just like in my head still sometimes..). But I myself did not suffer all these bad methods and subtle, verbal manipulations. But I saw, how my fellows were treated...what`s on my mind about ubf? "do you want us to go and pull them up? No! Because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them..." Don´t judge, don´t count sins, just name them, stand to Jesus , stand to the truth. Show spine ( german talks) greetings! If you want to mail, do it!
Anonymous
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2004.)
Name: X HAPPY AGAIN MEMBER
Comments: Hi to all who are reading this. I was in UBF for 5 years. They found me in college and after I graduated, I continued the study. Some positive points on UBF - GREAT Bible study [except for the slight problem of brainwashing]. Helped me to repent of my old ways of life and live a new life in Christ Jesus. Great idea to evangelize college students. I like that idea. However, I got deeper and deeper into their brainwashing. That is when I finally realized that I needed to get out. I did not look at this web site, and I had no help from anyone. I decided by myself that it was not right. I was one of those people who had a marriage problem. Well, once I left, I found the most wonderful man I have ever met (truly a blessing from God) and married him. A God fearing man. And we are not sinning by getting married. What we have done is very beautiful. We go to church together and study the Bible together. And we share God's word with other people when the time presents itself. Whats sad is it is very hard for me to do things in life without that small voice in my head that tell me how to do it the UBF way. They aren't completely wrong, but wrong in enough areas to make me want to leave and finally be able to communicate with my friends and family again. And get married to the man I love. I am done with them and hope that for the current members, that what they are doing feels right to them. And I hope for those who are unhappy with UBF, that they can get out of it and be free of those terrible guilt feelings. May the GRACE of JESUS be with each one of you!!
Name: X HAPPY AGAIN MEMBER
Comments: Hi to all who are reading this. I was in UBF for 5 years. They found me in college and after I graduated, I continued the study. Some positive points on UBF - GREAT Bible study [except for the slight problem of brainwashing]. Helped me to repent of my old ways of life and live a new life in Christ Jesus. Great idea to evangelize college students. I like that idea. However, I got deeper and deeper into their brainwashing. That is when I finally realized that I needed to get out. I did not look at this web site, and I had no help from anyone. I decided by myself that it was not right. I was one of those people who had a marriage problem. Well, once I left, I found the most wonderful man I have ever met (truly a blessing from God) and married him. A God fearing man. And we are not sinning by getting married. What we have done is very beautiful. We go to church together and study the Bible together. And we share God's word with other people when the time presents itself. Whats sad is it is very hard for me to do things in life without that small voice in my head that tell me how to do it the UBF way. They aren't completely wrong, but wrong in enough areas to make me want to leave and finally be able to communicate with my friends and family again. And get married to the man I love. I am done with them and hope that for the current members, that what they are doing feels right to them. And I hope for those who are unhappy with UBF, that they can get out of it and be free of those terrible guilt feelings. May the GRACE of JESUS be with each one of you!!
Anonymous (former Chicago UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2002.)
Name: m.
Comments: I attend the UBF in Chicago. I was harassed by my Shepherds, told to "beg God's forgiveness" when I missed church, urged to disobey my parents' wishes and stay in Illinois for the Christmas service.. Finally, terrified, I looked online to see if UBF might be a cult. I found this site. Thanks.
Name: m.
Comments: I attend the UBF in Chicago. I was harassed by my Shepherds, told to "beg God's forgiveness" when I missed church, urged to disobey my parents' wishes and stay in Illinois for the Christmas service.. Finally, terrified, I looked online to see if UBF might be a cult. I found this site. Thanks.
Rebecca H.
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2004.)
Name: Rebecca h.
E-mail address: withheld
Comments: I knew former member Kathy Calabrese personally. My mother used to baby sit for her children all of the time. We used to wonder why she always looked so worn out, so sad, she hardly ever smiled. We knew that she loved God and was a Christian, but we also sensed that something was not right about the "church" she attended. I am just utterly amazed that anyone who know the Bible and Our Lord Jesus Christ could ever believe that this man Samuel Lee is a Christian. He is everything opposite. I only hope that the people at UBF who have a sincere desire to follow God will get out of there as soon as possible, this is indeed a CULT. No true man of GOD would ever tell a womand to kill her unborn child. No man of God would ever force or coerce a woman or couple to put thier child up for adoption. A true man of GOD would not tell people to beat each other up, or make them walk barefoot for miles in the winter to "train" them. Where can show me in the Bible that God, our God of Love who sent his only son to Die a horrible death on the cross so "we can have Life and that more abundantly" would do these things or have someone else order them done. Jesus was full of love and he was the expression of the Father, the people that he rebuked were the "religious" ones, those who thought that they could tell others the right way, but didn't do them themselves. Jesus did nothing but love and care for people, and those of us who truely belong to him, will try our best to be like Jesus. Tell me how this Mr. Samuel Lee is anything at all like Jesus. He is not! Let God and the holy spirit lead you into all truth! For he surely will, if you just listen to his voice instead of a man who is so full of himself and satan, that only a God of love would let him live as long as he has, in hopes that he may himself come to the truth. May God bless all of you who truely desire to know him, and if you are still a member of UBF, please get out and find a good church, where people lift each other up and help them grow in love, not fear. P.S.UBF has some of the same teachings as Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses, and they are considered a cult!
Name: Rebecca h.
E-mail address: withheld
Comments: I knew former member Kathy Calabrese personally. My mother used to baby sit for her children all of the time. We used to wonder why she always looked so worn out, so sad, she hardly ever smiled. We knew that she loved God and was a Christian, but we also sensed that something was not right about the "church" she attended. I am just utterly amazed that anyone who know the Bible and Our Lord Jesus Christ could ever believe that this man Samuel Lee is a Christian. He is everything opposite. I only hope that the people at UBF who have a sincere desire to follow God will get out of there as soon as possible, this is indeed a CULT. No true man of GOD would ever tell a womand to kill her unborn child. No man of God would ever force or coerce a woman or couple to put thier child up for adoption. A true man of GOD would not tell people to beat each other up, or make them walk barefoot for miles in the winter to "train" them. Where can show me in the Bible that God, our God of Love who sent his only son to Die a horrible death on the cross so "we can have Life and that more abundantly" would do these things or have someone else order them done. Jesus was full of love and he was the expression of the Father, the people that he rebuked were the "religious" ones, those who thought that they could tell others the right way, but didn't do them themselves. Jesus did nothing but love and care for people, and those of us who truely belong to him, will try our best to be like Jesus. Tell me how this Mr. Samuel Lee is anything at all like Jesus. He is not! Let God and the holy spirit lead you into all truth! For he surely will, if you just listen to his voice instead of a man who is so full of himself and satan, that only a God of love would let him live as long as he has, in hopes that he may himself come to the truth. May God bless all of you who truely desire to know him, and if you are still a member of UBF, please get out and find a good church, where people lift each other up and help them grow in love, not fear. P.S.UBF has some of the same teachings as Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses, and they are considered a cult!
Saturday, October 20, 2007
Anonymous
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2002.)
Name: J
E-mail address: -
Comments: Hi. Thanks for your website. I think it's ridiculous that women are told that they're going to rot in hell for sleeping with their own husbands! In addition, Christians aren't supposed to threaten people who wish to leave a certain church. The organization seems to endorse loyalty to the UBF instead of loyalty to the Christian community in general. They don't like you hanging out with other fellowships, either! They give you guilt trips if you experience negative emotions or if you don't attend all their meetings. Often these guilt trips are indirect. I could go on and on, but I'll just talk a little bit about my own experience. People seemed to look and act like clones. Sometimes the testimonies seemed like the same testimony over and over. People would take big chunks of the message from Sunday and stick those in their testimonies. This could get a little tiresome when we had 8 or 12 people sharing! People seemed to lack their own thinking. People blindly took the pastor's interpretation of passages instead of asking about the other interpretations they had heard. Hardly anyone questioned. Anyway, pray for the people who are still stuck in the UBF. A lot of under-30s have been totally taken in by the whole system. I could tell you a sad story about an innocent 20-year-old, but I'm afraid I've already taken up a lot of your time. God bless the movement and I'll see how I can get involved.
Name: J
E-mail address: -
Comments: Hi. Thanks for your website. I think it's ridiculous that women are told that they're going to rot in hell for sleeping with their own husbands! In addition, Christians aren't supposed to threaten people who wish to leave a certain church. The organization seems to endorse loyalty to the UBF instead of loyalty to the Christian community in general. They don't like you hanging out with other fellowships, either! They give you guilt trips if you experience negative emotions or if you don't attend all their meetings. Often these guilt trips are indirect. I could go on and on, but I'll just talk a little bit about my own experience. People seemed to look and act like clones. Sometimes the testimonies seemed like the same testimony over and over. People would take big chunks of the message from Sunday and stick those in their testimonies. This could get a little tiresome when we had 8 or 12 people sharing! People seemed to lack their own thinking. People blindly took the pastor's interpretation of passages instead of asking about the other interpretations they had heard. Hardly anyone questioned. Anyway, pray for the people who are still stuck in the UBF. A lot of under-30s have been totally taken in by the whole system. I could tell you a sad story about an innocent 20-year-old, but I'm afraid I've already taken up a lot of your time. God bless the movement and I'll see how I can get involved.
Anonymous
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2002.)
Comments: I would like to make a statement to anyone who is willing to read this. As Christians we are all a part of the body of Christ, Are we not? And thus, we need to live as though we are. It was in ubf that I was told that there aren't many sincere christians outside of the members there. So in Essence, ubf is blind to the fact that there are millions of sincere christians out there that are sincere. I doubt that any of them help those who are in the underground church. They are the ones that are really persecuted by being beaten, brainwahsed, and only GOD knows what else. So I say to you who reads this that Christ is our foundation and THE LORD IS OUR SHEPHERD! We are under no man on this earth But only GOD!
Comments: I would like to make a statement to anyone who is willing to read this. As Christians we are all a part of the body of Christ, Are we not? And thus, we need to live as though we are. It was in ubf that I was told that there aren't many sincere christians outside of the members there. So in Essence, ubf is blind to the fact that there are millions of sincere christians out there that are sincere. I doubt that any of them help those who are in the underground church. They are the ones that are really persecuted by being beaten, brainwahsed, and only GOD knows what else. So I say to you who reads this that Christ is our foundation and THE LORD IS OUR SHEPHERD! We are under no man on this earth But only GOD!
Anonymous (former Hong Kong UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2001.)
E-mail address: rsqubf@siteadm.net
Comments: ... I'm from UBF Hong Kong Chapter and has been with them for 2 years already. I DO feel the UBF here got some problems (and sometimes, wrong teachings) and it has been a burden for live for over 6 months alreadym, so I tried Yahoo! to see if my point of view is right or not. Thanks God that I found RSQUBF (also other Chinese webpages pointing out the possible problem of UBF), I am looking for another church but it isn't an easy thing to do. Let's keep in touch, my email supplied really works.
E-mail address: rsqubf@siteadm.net
Comments: ... I'm from UBF Hong Kong Chapter and has been with them for 2 years already. I DO feel the UBF here got some problems (and sometimes, wrong teachings) and it has been a burden for live for over 6 months alreadym, so I tried Yahoo! to see if my point of view is right or not. Thanks God that I found RSQUBF (also other Chinese webpages pointing out the possible problem of UBF), I am looking for another church but it isn't an easy thing to do. Let's keep in touch, my email supplied really works.
Friday, October 19, 2007
Deniz K. (former Chicago UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2001. Also see http://exubf.blogspot.com/2009/02/amy-y-former-chicago-ubf.html.)
Name: Deniz K.
Comments: I believe it was God's will for me to be in UBF to know the truth. The truth that would set me free. The truth that how to follow the foot steps of Christ. That I am a precious child of God; not an illegimiate. That I am a workman who does not need to be ashamed, but who correctly handles the word of Truth. And I thank God that He made me a strong person, Christian. I learn a lot in UBF which I am thankful of, not through their grace but from God who trained me through their painful mental and spiritual tortures. That Christ is the Lord and I am FREE, not by the laws of little human beings, but by the omnipotent and omniscience God. (Romans 7: 16-17 and verse 20 "And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me...Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it"). No one should be a slave of anyone especially little peoplelike Samuel Lee and other totalitarians who have lower standards and are megalomaniacs. I have not even forget all the mistreatments of my many fellowship members. My shepherds insulting words and behaviors....that... that were unbelievable. I was basically mentally crucified. I am just so thankful to my God to show me the right way, which is to depend only to my Savior and the Lord, Jesus Christ. And to obey The Lord only, not man. I left UBF because God told me so and it was one of the best decision of my life. They were not a good example of Christianity to me, the ex-muslim. One day, I would like to share my testimony about UBF, about the Christ's way. Not the purpose of insulting UBF (which I believe they deserve to be insulted after all); but to show the truth to those seeks the truth. It is all about the way of Christ and the way of UBF. We, Christians, are not illegimate, but we are someone in this world for purposes, we are who we are, and we are the children and the servants of God. I guess Samuel Lee and other totalitarians do not know the consequences of their actions. They do not know how they will be judged by the Lord for all the ill treatments they have done (which they probably still do) to young Christian; most of all to GOD'S PRECIOUS CHILDREN. They do not know what Matthew 18:6 (But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea). May be they do not realize... but they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. May God forgive Samuel Lee and his mindlike people. May His Grace fall unto them. May God help us to forgive them and heal our soul and mind. And May His Spirit dwell in us. Please pray for these pitiful blind people who do not know what they are doing. If anyone have a question can contact me from the above e-mail addresses. And forgive me if there is any wrong in my writing. Peace with you, Deniz K.
Name: Deniz K.
Comments: I believe it was God's will for me to be in UBF to know the truth. The truth that would set me free. The truth that how to follow the foot steps of Christ. That I am a precious child of God; not an illegimiate. That I am a workman who does not need to be ashamed, but who correctly handles the word of Truth. And I thank God that He made me a strong person, Christian. I learn a lot in UBF which I am thankful of, not through their grace but from God who trained me through their painful mental and spiritual tortures. That Christ is the Lord and I am FREE, not by the laws of little human beings, but by the omnipotent and omniscience God. (Romans 7: 16-17 and verse 20 "And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me...Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it"). No one should be a slave of anyone especially little peoplelike Samuel Lee and other totalitarians who have lower standards and are megalomaniacs. I have not even forget all the mistreatments of my many fellowship members. My shepherds insulting words and behaviors....that... that were unbelievable. I was basically mentally crucified. I am just so thankful to my God to show me the right way, which is to depend only to my Savior and the Lord, Jesus Christ. And to obey The Lord only, not man. I left UBF because God told me so and it was one of the best decision of my life. They were not a good example of Christianity to me, the ex-muslim. One day, I would like to share my testimony about UBF, about the Christ's way. Not the purpose of insulting UBF (which I believe they deserve to be insulted after all); but to show the truth to those seeks the truth. It is all about the way of Christ and the way of UBF. We, Christians, are not illegimate, but we are someone in this world for purposes, we are who we are, and we are the children and the servants of God. I guess Samuel Lee and other totalitarians do not know the consequences of their actions. They do not know how they will be judged by the Lord for all the ill treatments they have done (which they probably still do) to young Christian; most of all to GOD'S PRECIOUS CHILDREN. They do not know what Matthew 18:6 (But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea). May be they do not realize... but they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. May God forgive Samuel Lee and his mindlike people. May His Grace fall unto them. May God help us to forgive them and heal our soul and mind. And May His Spirit dwell in us. Please pray for these pitiful blind people who do not know what they are doing. If anyone have a question can contact me from the above e-mail addresses. And forgive me if there is any wrong in my writing. Peace with you, Deniz K.
Leon N. (former Montreal & Boston UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2001)
Leon N.
Comments: I was a 5 month member in Montreal UBF (Canada) & then I moved to Boston, MA (U.S.) for a job. I joined the UBF in Boston, which was comprised of a newlywed couple from Korea with a baby girl. It was good at the beginning to be part of the manger ministry, but the Missn.'s wife started to gain control of my reins & steer me towards their "Korean" UBF ways. They wanted me to get married with a UBF girl from Korea, and persistently persuaded me to stay in school to attain many degrees in hope of being a leader in college campuses. I prayed about it, and knew after a while that it was not God's will to be with them OR be affiliated with the corruption of UBF. I left....
Leon N.
Comments: I was a 5 month member in Montreal UBF (Canada) & then I moved to Boston, MA (U.S.) for a job. I joined the UBF in Boston, which was comprised of a newlywed couple from Korea with a baby girl. It was good at the beginning to be part of the manger ministry, but the Missn.'s wife started to gain control of my reins & steer me towards their "Korean" UBF ways. They wanted me to get married with a UBF girl from Korea, and persistently persuaded me to stay in school to attain many degrees in hope of being a leader in college campuses. I prayed about it, and knew after a while that it was not God's will to be with them OR be affiliated with the corruption of UBF. I left....
Thursday, October 18, 2007
Joonho P. (former Korean UBF)
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2001)
Hopeful Joonho P.
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: Thanks to all. i'm very excited with this site. when i departed ubf last year i didn't know the separation of ubf. though the reasons that we had to be ex-ubf are different, substantial motive may be alike. my paster in ******1 i obeyed doesn't know the spiritual things. although it's not that he intentionally want to be opposite to God, but he is so because he doesn't know God. under his discipline all went to the states: competition, zealousy (sic), laws, accusation, lier,...etc. with love,compassion,mercy only in lips. i hope rsqubf go for healing, serving, gentleness, humbleness,...etc. now on the bulletin board of my homepage (http://statchem.snu.ac.kr/~hopefulp -> fellowship -> bulletin board) a man of ubf is bothering me with accusing of my departing ubf. but regarding his message i thought ubf is going to the cult. he located himself in the level of God. but as i found this site i've got comfort from you. God moved me to Berkland and there was another man from ubf, jongwoo Lee (missionary on tashkent, Uzbec from shinsoo in ubf). i was born in ubf and so want to remain friend with you. God bless you and keep your way to eternal life.
Hopeful Joonho P.
E-mail address: (withheld)
Comments: Thanks to all. i'm very excited with this site. when i departed ubf last year i didn't know the separation of ubf. though the reasons that we had to be ex-ubf are different, substantial motive may be alike. my paster in ******1 i obeyed doesn't know the spiritual things. although it's not that he intentionally want to be opposite to God, but he is so because he doesn't know God. under his discipline all went to the states: competition, zealousy (sic), laws, accusation, lier,...etc. with love,compassion,mercy only in lips. i hope rsqubf go for healing, serving, gentleness, humbleness,...etc. now on the bulletin board of my homepage (http://statchem.snu.ac.kr/~hopefulp -> fellowship -> bulletin board) a man of ubf is bothering me with accusing of my departing ubf. but regarding his message i thought ubf is going to the cult. he located himself in the level of God. but as i found this site i've got comfort from you. God moved me to Berkland and there was another man from ubf, jongwoo Lee (missionary on tashkent, Uzbec from shinsoo in ubf). i was born in ubf and so want to remain friend with you. God bless you and keep your way to eternal life.
Carmen
(Originally posted in the RSQUBF guestbook in 2001)
Carmen
E-mail address: CRF_COSSIOCM@CUIS.EDU
Comments: Great website, it is about time the truth was told. I was part of another chapter of UBF and boy do they have alot to change. I feel sorry for all the people that are still there suffering under the oppression of legalism and bible teachings that are from the gospel of Miss. Sam Lee. I would like to share my experiences one day.
Carmen
E-mail address: CRF_COSSIOCM@CUIS.EDU
Comments: Great website, it is about time the truth was told. I was part of another chapter of UBF and boy do they have alot to change. I feel sorry for all the people that are still there suffering under the oppression of legalism and bible teachings that are from the gospel of Miss. Sam Lee. I would like to share my experiences one day.
Monday, October 15, 2007
Phillip H. (former U. of Chicago UBF)
(Originally posted at http://voy.com/60734/. See also http://rsqubf.info/documents/external/external.html#television)
Date Posted: 17:29:34 02/22/05 Tue
Author: Phillip H.
Subject: Re: TV Alert for Those in the Columbus, OH area
In reply to: Paul Thomas Evans 's message, "TV Alert for Those in the Columbus, OH area" on 20:52:26 02/20/05 Sun
Joe brought something to my attentions, so:
I would like to publicly say that while I was at Wellspring I was in no way forced to participate in that interview. They merely informed me that Channel 10 was doing a special report because of alleged abuse by UBF at Ohio State and that they would like to interview former members. In fact, the Wellspring staff was very careful to make sure that I could end the interview at any time and that they were nearby and accessible if I had any problems.
I decided that, because of the abuse in UBF, it was my obligation to stand up and say something so that more people won't go into that organization where the great and holy name of Jesus is used to enslave idealistic and intelligent youths to another humans will. We are to serve God, not men claiming to know God's will for each of their sheep.
When my "shepherd" told me that I had to leave my Christian fiancee because of some sin in our past that we were doing our best to deal with, I finally realized something was wrong. Thank God my bond with her was stronger than my enslavement to my "shepherd" and I was kept from making a terrible mistake.
I have heard that some people, after leaving Christian cults, become agnostic or atheist because they feel betrayed and cannot hope to know anything about God after being abused in His name. I have traveled down that same path a little way, but I know now that I have not believed in vain. I pray that all of those who were hurt by UBF and similar organizations (myself included) might know that just because men often cannot be trusted, Christianity is true, Jesus really is God, not some cult leader or deceiver, that He loves us enough to suffer and die for us, and that we can distort that all we want, but by believing in Him, we have eternal life, full stop.
I do not hate them, I have even forgiven them. They say they seek to do good, but by abusing in the name of God they only turn many away from Him or at least make them ineffectual. It is because of this that they must be apposed, not out of personal anger or revenge, but for the sake of those they hurt and the spiritual wellbeing of many.
May the grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
Phillip H.
Date Posted: 12:10:21 02/25/05 Fri
Author: Phillip H.
Subject: Re: "...because she didn't share the same mission"
In reply to: Another Busy Day 's message, ""...because she didn't share the same mission"" on 15:18:38 02/23/05 Wed
I would like to point out that I never shared the same mission as UBF either. When I made my decision that I wanted to go into ministry, it was to become a pastor, not campus mission. I was, at the time, surprised when eventually my shepherd told me that there were lots of pastors and that I should consider campus mission instead of seminary and the more traditional ministry. He went on to say that he had considered being a normal pastor at one time but had decided that campus mission was more important for him to do. I do not want to debate the merits of any particular calling over another, all callings, in my opinion and, I believe, the Bible's, have equal merit. I was just shocked that he was trying to disude me from a traditional pastoral ministry. To his credit, he did seemingly give this up when I emphatically stated that I did not feel called to campus mission, but then again, maybe he never really did give up his attempts to keep me in UBF. Had he succeeded in coercing me to terminate my relationship with my fiancee, I may have stayed in UBF and been "married by faith", etc. I'm sure my hypothetical UBF bride would not have wanted to have a different ministry than UBF.
The thing that really gets to me, though, is their statement--that they think that if someone does not have the same mission as UBF, they are not a fitting partner for a UBF member, no matter what that member's futer plans may be. None of us know what our future mission is anyway. Moses wasn't called by God until after he spent 40 years in the desert (only to spend another 40 years leading people through the desert). What does UBF know about anyone's personal mission from God? They can't. I very clearly remember my shepherd talking about when he'd pray and then he'd get this idea that so-and-so should be a short term missionary to Mongolia, or China, or some other place. They would inevitably go there, though they may not have considered it until that moment and it may not, in fact, have been God's real calling for them. However, there was incredible pressure to trust one's "spiritual mentor" and essentially do what they say. It seems to me now that the Holy Spirit didn't talk to anyone personally about God's plan for that person, only about God's plan for their subordinates (except maybe for the very top people).
Actually, though, my fiancee has a great calling for a missionary, she is studying to be a nurse. Nurses are always needed, no matter where one goes, and they can be great agents of mercy and natural witnesses for the loving-care of Jesus and of the gospel. No, it was graceless-legalism and control that prompted my shepherd to demand that we break-up. UBF seems to forget that God forgives and sanctifies Christians over time, often letting them taste the pain that is cause by their sin first. The fact that we were, are, and will be sinners until the Day of Christ Jesus does not disqualify us from an otherwise permissible relationship with anyone for any reason.
May the Grace and Peace of the Lord Jesus be with you all.
Date Posted: 17:29:34 02/22/05 Tue
Author: Phillip H.
Subject: Re: TV Alert for Those in the Columbus, OH area
In reply to: Paul Thomas Evans 's message, "TV Alert for Those in the Columbus, OH area" on 20:52:26 02/20/05 Sun
Joe brought something to my attentions, so:
I would like to publicly say that while I was at Wellspring I was in no way forced to participate in that interview. They merely informed me that Channel 10 was doing a special report because of alleged abuse by UBF at Ohio State and that they would like to interview former members. In fact, the Wellspring staff was very careful to make sure that I could end the interview at any time and that they were nearby and accessible if I had any problems.
I decided that, because of the abuse in UBF, it was my obligation to stand up and say something so that more people won't go into that organization where the great and holy name of Jesus is used to enslave idealistic and intelligent youths to another humans will. We are to serve God, not men claiming to know God's will for each of their sheep.
When my "shepherd" told me that I had to leave my Christian fiancee because of some sin in our past that we were doing our best to deal with, I finally realized something was wrong. Thank God my bond with her was stronger than my enslavement to my "shepherd" and I was kept from making a terrible mistake.
I have heard that some people, after leaving Christian cults, become agnostic or atheist because they feel betrayed and cannot hope to know anything about God after being abused in His name. I have traveled down that same path a little way, but I know now that I have not believed in vain. I pray that all of those who were hurt by UBF and similar organizations (myself included) might know that just because men often cannot be trusted, Christianity is true, Jesus really is God, not some cult leader or deceiver, that He loves us enough to suffer and die for us, and that we can distort that all we want, but by believing in Him, we have eternal life, full stop.
I do not hate them, I have even forgiven them. They say they seek to do good, but by abusing in the name of God they only turn many away from Him or at least make them ineffectual. It is because of this that they must be apposed, not out of personal anger or revenge, but for the sake of those they hurt and the spiritual wellbeing of many.
May the grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
Phillip H.
Date Posted: 12:10:21 02/25/05 Fri
Author: Phillip H.
Subject: Re: "...because she didn't share the same mission"
In reply to: Another Busy Day 's message, ""...because she didn't share the same mission"" on 15:18:38 02/23/05 Wed
I would like to point out that I never shared the same mission as UBF either. When I made my decision that I wanted to go into ministry, it was to become a pastor, not campus mission. I was, at the time, surprised when eventually my shepherd told me that there were lots of pastors and that I should consider campus mission instead of seminary and the more traditional ministry. He went on to say that he had considered being a normal pastor at one time but had decided that campus mission was more important for him to do. I do not want to debate the merits of any particular calling over another, all callings, in my opinion and, I believe, the Bible's, have equal merit. I was just shocked that he was trying to disude me from a traditional pastoral ministry. To his credit, he did seemingly give this up when I emphatically stated that I did not feel called to campus mission, but then again, maybe he never really did give up his attempts to keep me in UBF. Had he succeeded in coercing me to terminate my relationship with my fiancee, I may have stayed in UBF and been "married by faith", etc. I'm sure my hypothetical UBF bride would not have wanted to have a different ministry than UBF.
The thing that really gets to me, though, is their statement--that they think that if someone does not have the same mission as UBF, they are not a fitting partner for a UBF member, no matter what that member's futer plans may be. None of us know what our future mission is anyway. Moses wasn't called by God until after he spent 40 years in the desert (only to spend another 40 years leading people through the desert). What does UBF know about anyone's personal mission from God? They can't. I very clearly remember my shepherd talking about when he'd pray and then he'd get this idea that so-and-so should be a short term missionary to Mongolia, or China, or some other place. They would inevitably go there, though they may not have considered it until that moment and it may not, in fact, have been God's real calling for them. However, there was incredible pressure to trust one's "spiritual mentor" and essentially do what they say. It seems to me now that the Holy Spirit didn't talk to anyone personally about God's plan for that person, only about God's plan for their subordinates (except maybe for the very top people).
Actually, though, my fiancee has a great calling for a missionary, she is studying to be a nurse. Nurses are always needed, no matter where one goes, and they can be great agents of mercy and natural witnesses for the loving-care of Jesus and of the gospel. No, it was graceless-legalism and control that prompted my shepherd to demand that we break-up. UBF seems to forget that God forgives and sanctifies Christians over time, often letting them taste the pain that is cause by their sin first. The fact that we were, are, and will be sinners until the Day of Christ Jesus does not disqualify us from an otherwise permissible relationship with anyone for any reason.
May the Grace and Peace of the Lord Jesus be with you all.
Wednesday, October 10, 2007
Mitch (former Arlington, TX UBF)
(Originally posted at http://voy.com/60734/)
Date Posted: 01:16:51 08/08/04 Sun
Author: Mitch
Subject: Re: Things different about this year's MSU conference
In reply to: Amy Young 's message, "Re: Things different about this year's MSU conference" on 14:21:53 08/07/04 Sat
Hello Amy, Thank you for asking. I also thank God for showing me the truth about UBF. At this time I have not officially left UBF so I don't want to share too much. If you can wait several weeks I will share more.
I have been in UBF for four years. I was a Christian before that for six years. I was searching for a church without much success. I was also taking summer classes. When on campus I was approached by two missionaries, I agreed to study the Bible one on one, thinking that this might be God's answer to me for a church. After attending worship service, everything seemed to be fine. The first couple of years I was there, I really didn't notice differences. But soon I noticed a few people (students) leave the fellowship and nothing was ever said. I asked about these people and I was told they "dropped out". I thought it was odd. Then one day I heard the director's wife say "he ran away from UBF" refering to a fromer member. The missionaries there began to talk about former members of UBF as people who were not saved because they left UBF. This bothered me. But I said nothing.
By this time I was teaching other students the Bible and fishing regularly. I also wrote testimonies, but then some of the things the director said in his sunday messages began to make me a little suspicious. At one time he said that anyone who does not write a weekly testimony will have to stay after worship service and write it. At another time he said "I have the authority to make you do these things." I thought about this and reasoned that since he came from another culture that his take on authority was different than mine. So I dissmissed it. As it turned out he never followed through with these threats, so I thought that he was saying them only to encourage us to write testimonies. About this time I went to a conference in May 2003, there I heard a shepherd (from another chapter) say the same thing that my director said: that we could not go home until we memorized a very large portion of sripture.
But here is the main reason that made me think I should leave. A year ago the director asked me if I would consider selling my house and move closer to the university, so that I could participate in the ministry more often. He said that I could use the money I get from selling my house to buy a new one closer to the campus, and begin using it for a Bible house and possibly having worship service there. He said if I did it God would bless me abundantly for my sacrifice. He said that this was God's plan for my life, to sell my house and dedicate my entire life to the ministry(UBF). He talked as if it was definatley God's plan for me.
I was cuaght off gaurd, and did not know what to say. He asked me to think about it, and I said I would. Then, the VERY next day, he announced to the entire congregation that I agreed to sell my house and move closer to the univerity with the idea that my house would be used by UBF for worship service, one on one Bible study and missionary roommates. I was very confused at this point. I prayed about this, asking God if this man had the authority to do this. I prayed about leaving UBF. But I felt so tied into this church by now, that I did not have the will power to leave.
In the following year, this director did not bug me too much about moving, he did mention one time to check with realtors and see about houses near the campus. The missionary at this chapter actaully called me up and said that I must look at houses close to the university and then report back to the director. I just ignored them from then on about the house thing. I was not burdened about losing my house, I was burdened with him asking me to sell it. I thought what godly man would do this? Does he have Biblical authority to require me to follow these orders?
Here are some other things this director has said: He mentioned again in the pulpit how he has the spiritual authority over those sitting down. At a prayer meeting he said that anyone who misses a prayer meeting will be fined ten dallors. He told me I was not quilified to be married, then he told me of a woman in Korea that has been praying to marry me, and if I got my act together I could marry her (yes they tried to arrange my marriage). He said anyone that does not write testimonies is living in sin and has a spiritual problem. He is so soft-spoken, that you would almost believe anything he says. He says that vacations are a sign of worldly living and we should repent if we take one. He told me two weekends ago that I should move close to the university at any cost, and that if I don't do it God would not bless me, because I have to many "possessions" to many "material items". He told me to throw away everything I have and only keep a Bible, and that I am "still in my father's house" in reference to Abraham leaving his father's house and going to the land of Cannan. In other words, I am still in sin because I have not sold my house and set out for the promised land (a house closer to the university). I heard him sharply rebuke a missionary for not having enough sheep, and for not writing good enough testimonies. In prayer sometimes they will pray that I will "repent" for my sins. And I could tell you more........
Most of these things happened the within the last year. The first couple of years my eyes were not opened to what they were doing. I believe that is part of their method, to hide their true intentions until the "sheep" gets further into the church, then slowly implant their teachings.
I attended the MSU conference. I only participated in the meals and the Bible study. I took walks and read the Bible when every other member went to the lectures. I attended part of the saturday nite meeting and part of the sunday closing. When I got home, I did some searhes trying to find articles about UBF. I have tried before but only found one, and it was not very detailed. This time I did a search on google for UBF, and I found an article that said that UBF was revoked by the NAE. I was stunned! In this article was the RSQUBF website and the EscapedUBF website. I read articles about false UBF teachings, Samual Lee, testimonies from former UBF members. I had always thought about UBF being a cult, but now I had evidence, and it was a reality. I was embarassed, I felt humiliated. I was hurt, thinking that I wasted four years of my life with this cult. I was angry with UBF, but more angry with myself. I wonder why God allowed me to stay there?
Then I decided that I would definatley leave. When I prayed about this, I felt peace and a burden lefted from me. I feel good that I will not be invloved with UBF anymore. I am going back tomorrow to return a few items. They don't know I am leaving yet, but they will sometime this week. I have not decided how I am going to tell them, but I have decided I want no part of them.
When I think it is safe to tell you more I will. And thank you so much for your interest. I will continue to read this thread. Bye for now........
>Hi Mitch. I thank God for leading you to the truth about UBF. Would you be willing to share more of your
>UBF experiences with us? Like: which chapter were you
>from? what did you notice different about UBF compared
>to normal Christian churches? etc. Thank you for
>visiting this website! P.S. how did you find this
>website?
Date Posted: 01:16:51 08/08/04 Sun
Author: Mitch
Subject: Re: Things different about this year's MSU conference
In reply to: Amy Young 's message, "Re: Things different about this year's MSU conference" on 14:21:53 08/07/04 Sat
Hello Amy, Thank you for asking. I also thank God for showing me the truth about UBF. At this time I have not officially left UBF so I don't want to share too much. If you can wait several weeks I will share more.
I have been in UBF for four years. I was a Christian before that for six years. I was searching for a church without much success. I was also taking summer classes. When on campus I was approached by two missionaries, I agreed to study the Bible one on one, thinking that this might be God's answer to me for a church. After attending worship service, everything seemed to be fine. The first couple of years I was there, I really didn't notice differences. But soon I noticed a few people (students) leave the fellowship and nothing was ever said. I asked about these people and I was told they "dropped out". I thought it was odd. Then one day I heard the director's wife say "he ran away from UBF" refering to a fromer member. The missionaries there began to talk about former members of UBF as people who were not saved because they left UBF. This bothered me. But I said nothing.
By this time I was teaching other students the Bible and fishing regularly. I also wrote testimonies, but then some of the things the director said in his sunday messages began to make me a little suspicious. At one time he said that anyone who does not write a weekly testimony will have to stay after worship service and write it. At another time he said "I have the authority to make you do these things." I thought about this and reasoned that since he came from another culture that his take on authority was different than mine. So I dissmissed it. As it turned out he never followed through with these threats, so I thought that he was saying them only to encourage us to write testimonies. About this time I went to a conference in May 2003, there I heard a shepherd (from another chapter) say the same thing that my director said: that we could not go home until we memorized a very large portion of sripture.
But here is the main reason that made me think I should leave. A year ago the director asked me if I would consider selling my house and move closer to the university, so that I could participate in the ministry more often. He said that I could use the money I get from selling my house to buy a new one closer to the campus, and begin using it for a Bible house and possibly having worship service there. He said if I did it God would bless me abundantly for my sacrifice. He said that this was God's plan for my life, to sell my house and dedicate my entire life to the ministry(UBF). He talked as if it was definatley God's plan for me.
I was cuaght off gaurd, and did not know what to say. He asked me to think about it, and I said I would. Then, the VERY next day, he announced to the entire congregation that I agreed to sell my house and move closer to the univerity with the idea that my house would be used by UBF for worship service, one on one Bible study and missionary roommates. I was very confused at this point. I prayed about this, asking God if this man had the authority to do this. I prayed about leaving UBF. But I felt so tied into this church by now, that I did not have the will power to leave.
In the following year, this director did not bug me too much about moving, he did mention one time to check with realtors and see about houses near the campus. The missionary at this chapter actaully called me up and said that I must look at houses close to the university and then report back to the director. I just ignored them from then on about the house thing. I was not burdened about losing my house, I was burdened with him asking me to sell it. I thought what godly man would do this? Does he have Biblical authority to require me to follow these orders?
Here are some other things this director has said: He mentioned again in the pulpit how he has the spiritual authority over those sitting down. At a prayer meeting he said that anyone who misses a prayer meeting will be fined ten dallors. He told me I was not quilified to be married, then he told me of a woman in Korea that has been praying to marry me, and if I got my act together I could marry her (yes they tried to arrange my marriage). He said anyone that does not write testimonies is living in sin and has a spiritual problem. He is so soft-spoken, that you would almost believe anything he says. He says that vacations are a sign of worldly living and we should repent if we take one. He told me two weekends ago that I should move close to the university at any cost, and that if I don't do it God would not bless me, because I have to many "possessions" to many "material items". He told me to throw away everything I have and only keep a Bible, and that I am "still in my father's house" in reference to Abraham leaving his father's house and going to the land of Cannan. In other words, I am still in sin because I have not sold my house and set out for the promised land (a house closer to the university). I heard him sharply rebuke a missionary for not having enough sheep, and for not writing good enough testimonies. In prayer sometimes they will pray that I will "repent" for my sins. And I could tell you more........
Most of these things happened the within the last year. The first couple of years my eyes were not opened to what they were doing. I believe that is part of their method, to hide their true intentions until the "sheep" gets further into the church, then slowly implant their teachings.
I attended the MSU conference. I only participated in the meals and the Bible study. I took walks and read the Bible when every other member went to the lectures. I attended part of the saturday nite meeting and part of the sunday closing. When I got home, I did some searhes trying to find articles about UBF. I have tried before but only found one, and it was not very detailed. This time I did a search on google for UBF, and I found an article that said that UBF was revoked by the NAE. I was stunned! In this article was the RSQUBF website and the EscapedUBF website. I read articles about false UBF teachings, Samual Lee, testimonies from former UBF members. I had always thought about UBF being a cult, but now I had evidence, and it was a reality. I was embarassed, I felt humiliated. I was hurt, thinking that I wasted four years of my life with this cult. I was angry with UBF, but more angry with myself. I wonder why God allowed me to stay there?
Then I decided that I would definatley leave. When I prayed about this, I felt peace and a burden lefted from me. I feel good that I will not be invloved with UBF anymore. I am going back tomorrow to return a few items. They don't know I am leaving yet, but they will sometime this week. I have not decided how I am going to tell them, but I have decided I want no part of them.
When I think it is safe to tell you more I will. And thank you so much for your interest. I will continue to read this thread. Bye for now........
>Hi Mitch. I thank God for leading you to the truth about UBF. Would you be willing to share more of your
>UBF experiences with us? Like: which chapter were you
>from? what did you notice different about UBF compared
>to normal Christian churches? etc. Thank you for
>visiting this website! P.S. how did you find this
>website?
Tuesday, October 9, 2007
Isaac H. (former India UBF)
(Posted to http://www.e-pao.net/epSubPageExtractor.asp?src=leisure.essays.Isaac_Hmar.The_Christ_Figure ca. May, 2005)
The University Bible Fellowship (UBF) came to Delhi more than ten years ago from South Korea and has more than 20 chapters in the United States. It calls itself a Christian Bible study group, dedicated to the taste of campus evangelism mainly among the students. UBF is under total and absolute obedience to Samuel Lee and his teachings, according to Dr. Ronald Enroth of California, a world-renowned sociologist who has had six books published on North American cults;
UBF is a part of a new wave of authoritarian mind-control groups quickly replacing traditional youth groups like the Hare Krishnas, Monies and Scientologist. Samuel Lee, whose real name is Chang Woo Lee, started the UBF in Korea in the 1960s along with American Presbyterian missionary Sarah Barry. Dissent among Korean members in 1976 over what they claimed was Lee’s abuse of spiritual authority split the group and brought Lee and Barry to the U.S. where they now control UBF operations from their headquarters in Chicago.
In the year 2000 another reform movement arose in the UBF worldwide. Main issues were again the spiritual, authority and financial abuse by Lee and UBF traditions and practices that were considered abusive. Again, any criticism was sharply rejected by Lee as being a "rebellion." Lee died in January 2001 through a fire in his house. The new top leadership Sarah Barry and John Jun followed the course of Samuel Lee by expelling all reform minded members and rejecting any discussion about the problematic issues.
INTENSIVE ONE TO ONE BIBLE STUDY: In 1993, July I was introduced to their Sunday worship service and their centre which is situated in Munirka village, New Delhi is named as UBF, Jawaharlal Nehru University Centre. The worship service attendants were numbering around 50 and most of them are from Northeast Indians except few of them were from south Indians. The students are introduced to UBF Bible study by mainly Korean missionaries, referred to as shepherd by group members.
When I was being invited by one missionary for bible study, I couldn’t just refuse it but I was rather anxious and feeling excited about the invitation. I started with a few one-to-one intensive Bible study sessions with Peter, and eventually he became like my personal shepherd. Then I began attending Sunday services at the Bible house, early morning study, and latter a few months I was involved in several UBF activities each day, and I am completely changed in a few months.
I used to be ambitious student studying sociology honor in Jamia Millia University, New Delhi. During intensive bible study my Shepherd kept emphasizing on Mathew chapter 6: verse 33 "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." As a result, I began to deny worldly ambition and finally I became like full-time staff member and dedicated my whole life to UBF, JNU Center.
On 4, November, 1994 I was ordained as "Shepherd" in a simple ceremonial which was carried out by our Director Jimmy Lee and his wife Maria Lee by reading out the bible words from Mark chapter 3: verse 14, "He appointed twelve-designating them apostles that they might be with him and that he might send them out preach". And after the ceremonial service was over, I was made acquaintance of my ordination as Shepherd from members with encouraged words, "Dear brother, Thank and praise God for raising up Shepherd Isaac as a campus Shepherd according to God’s will and time. May God bless your life of mission and help you to bear much spiritual fruit- UBF Brothers and Sisters."
However, it was like a spiritual rape but I don’t really realize it until the serious bits and pieces starts coming down and by that time I was already too far. The newly recruited shepherd had been gradually isolated from family, friends and all other peoples except those directly connected with UBF. Even they restricted attending to our own Hmar church service. On one occasion I was involved in our community harvest festival without prior permission from my personal Shepherd and later on knowing this, they issued a strong decree of fasting prayer all night long until I broke down with tears of repentance.
TEST OF LOYALTY: In the first stage, the Shepherds displayed what is apparently unconditional acceptance and affection for the recruit. If we were shy and a bit insecure, that environment made you feel erudite and more open to what they had to say. During each one-to-one Bible Study, the sheep were encouraged to reveal information about themselves particularly their daily life-style through the Sogam (which is a Korean word meaning straight from the heart) method - their fears, guilt and insecurities. That’s where they got me into manipulation. Such information was turned around on people to be used painfully later on.
If they could cut you away from your friends, family and the people you trusted; then they could replace them and totally surround our life. They constantly occupied our time and started to make decisions so that I did not go home for Thanksgiving, weekends and summer vacation or studying with them. My Shepherd told me that my parents wouldn’t understand my new commitment and would probably persecute me for it. When that happened, the shepherd explained, I would know Satan was working through them. On top of that my Shepherd also pushed me to make maximum financial commitments to UBF.
And this was a series of loyalty tests to exact complete obedience from the recruit to God, and the UBF leaders would resort to physical abuse if stubborn members refused to break. Our Director Jimmy Lee was revered as a Christ figure and he wielded tremendous power over the lives of individual members in the group, including personally arranging marriages between members.
ROMANTIC LOVES AFFAIRS: If one fell in love with any girl outside the UBF member, such romantic affairs were considered evil and unspiritual by the group. If they found out that you were courting some girls, they would nail you to a wall, and yelled at you everyday, rebuking you by exposing all areas of your weaknesses. It’s a classical brainwashing technique used on prisoners of war. They got you to the breaking point and then they became your redeemers and rebuild you in the image they have for you. From this experiment, I came to know that they got a thrill out of the power they has over people’s lives. It’s a classical brainwashing technique used on prisoners of war.
UBF.CHICAGO CENTRE: According to Gillespie, spokesman for the Manitoba Cult Awareness Centre, "If they’re living with the group, it’s almost impossible to get them out, "Gillespie said. "A lot of people resort to forcibly pulling their kids from the centre of UBF." But according to Gordon Gillespie, spokesman for the Manitoba Cult Awareness Centre the group uses classic cult techniques to recruit its members; they are very professional and very well organized.
The Korean women usually approach young white male students, while they are joined by a man when approaching female. They seemed to go after people who look socially unsure of themselves. Gillespie said youth cults tend to attract thoughtful and idealistic young people, often at a time when they are searching for meaning in their lives. "That’s the sad thing, "he said, "These cults have always had an appeal to an intelligent type of person who wants to do something about society and the way it works."
"Its mean stuff and we’re just starting to hear more about it." Blanche Brauns, head of an anti-UBF lobby group in Chicago, said in a letter she sent to cult awareness groups that UBF practices appear to be Christian, but many people who have left it, including her son, have suffered psychological problems when re-entering society, especially those who did not receive exit-counseling and rehabilitation.
"From the outside, it appears to be very much a Christian group with Christian beliefs," she said. "But they twist the scriptures to suit themselves and their behavior and practices are abominable."
According to another mother who joined the lobby group after her son was taken in by UBF, the group leaders destroyed her son’s self-respect using guilt and confession tactics, eventually building themselves up as his saviors and gods." Pat was only in there for a short time," she said." But it still took five straight days to deprogram him. He had got to the point where he couldn’t do a thing without his shepherd’s permission. This is not a religious issue. This is mind control," She said.
DISASSOCIATED FROM UBF: Once I was informed to meet our Director Jimmy Lee and we had a long discussion for my future course of mission. He bluntly told me that I am getting married by faith not by choice and assured me that this is God’s direction. Although I had tried hard to bargain for getting married with my own choice, I was rather accused as contravening God’s will and His purpose on my life. Then I had no choice but to disassociate myself from the mission.
In conclusion, I would like to express my views on this controversial mission as many of my brethrens are still actively taking part in it. Not all religious faith is true or helpful which was already tested in the University Bible Fellowship. If there is mysticism that is sacred, there is also that which is profane. Therefore, we need cool-headed analyses and reasonable criteria to distinguish true faith from false, divine from demonic, genuine from bogus.
Otherwise, we will again put faith in gods who fail, mocking the noble vision of their followers who want to reconstruct a culture with beauty, and live with meaning, freedom and fulfillment. Religious ideology is foundational for social order. It either legitimizes a given social order or seeks to change.
The University Bible Fellowship (UBF) came to Delhi more than ten years ago from South Korea and has more than 20 chapters in the United States. It calls itself a Christian Bible study group, dedicated to the taste of campus evangelism mainly among the students. UBF is under total and absolute obedience to Samuel Lee and his teachings, according to Dr. Ronald Enroth of California, a world-renowned sociologist who has had six books published on North American cults;
UBF is a part of a new wave of authoritarian mind-control groups quickly replacing traditional youth groups like the Hare Krishnas, Monies and Scientologist. Samuel Lee, whose real name is Chang Woo Lee, started the UBF in Korea in the 1960s along with American Presbyterian missionary Sarah Barry. Dissent among Korean members in 1976 over what they claimed was Lee’s abuse of spiritual authority split the group and brought Lee and Barry to the U.S. where they now control UBF operations from their headquarters in Chicago.
In the year 2000 another reform movement arose in the UBF worldwide. Main issues were again the spiritual, authority and financial abuse by Lee and UBF traditions and practices that were considered abusive. Again, any criticism was sharply rejected by Lee as being a "rebellion." Lee died in January 2001 through a fire in his house. The new top leadership Sarah Barry and John Jun followed the course of Samuel Lee by expelling all reform minded members and rejecting any discussion about the problematic issues.
INTENSIVE ONE TO ONE BIBLE STUDY: In 1993, July I was introduced to their Sunday worship service and their centre which is situated in Munirka village, New Delhi is named as UBF, Jawaharlal Nehru University Centre. The worship service attendants were numbering around 50 and most of them are from Northeast Indians except few of them were from south Indians. The students are introduced to UBF Bible study by mainly Korean missionaries, referred to as shepherd by group members.
When I was being invited by one missionary for bible study, I couldn’t just refuse it but I was rather anxious and feeling excited about the invitation. I started with a few one-to-one intensive Bible study sessions with Peter, and eventually he became like my personal shepherd. Then I began attending Sunday services at the Bible house, early morning study, and latter a few months I was involved in several UBF activities each day, and I am completely changed in a few months.
I used to be ambitious student studying sociology honor in Jamia Millia University, New Delhi. During intensive bible study my Shepherd kept emphasizing on Mathew chapter 6: verse 33 "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." As a result, I began to deny worldly ambition and finally I became like full-time staff member and dedicated my whole life to UBF, JNU Center.
On 4, November, 1994 I was ordained as "Shepherd" in a simple ceremonial which was carried out by our Director Jimmy Lee and his wife Maria Lee by reading out the bible words from Mark chapter 3: verse 14, "He appointed twelve-designating them apostles that they might be with him and that he might send them out preach". And after the ceremonial service was over, I was made acquaintance of my ordination as Shepherd from members with encouraged words, "Dear brother, Thank and praise God for raising up Shepherd Isaac as a campus Shepherd according to God’s will and time. May God bless your life of mission and help you to bear much spiritual fruit- UBF Brothers and Sisters."
However, it was like a spiritual rape but I don’t really realize it until the serious bits and pieces starts coming down and by that time I was already too far. The newly recruited shepherd had been gradually isolated from family, friends and all other peoples except those directly connected with UBF. Even they restricted attending to our own Hmar church service. On one occasion I was involved in our community harvest festival without prior permission from my personal Shepherd and later on knowing this, they issued a strong decree of fasting prayer all night long until I broke down with tears of repentance.
TEST OF LOYALTY: In the first stage, the Shepherds displayed what is apparently unconditional acceptance and affection for the recruit. If we were shy and a bit insecure, that environment made you feel erudite and more open to what they had to say. During each one-to-one Bible Study, the sheep were encouraged to reveal information about themselves particularly their daily life-style through the Sogam (which is a Korean word meaning straight from the heart) method - their fears, guilt and insecurities. That’s where they got me into manipulation. Such information was turned around on people to be used painfully later on.
If they could cut you away from your friends, family and the people you trusted; then they could replace them and totally surround our life. They constantly occupied our time and started to make decisions so that I did not go home for Thanksgiving, weekends and summer vacation or studying with them. My Shepherd told me that my parents wouldn’t understand my new commitment and would probably persecute me for it. When that happened, the shepherd explained, I would know Satan was working through them. On top of that my Shepherd also pushed me to make maximum financial commitments to UBF.
And this was a series of loyalty tests to exact complete obedience from the recruit to God, and the UBF leaders would resort to physical abuse if stubborn members refused to break. Our Director Jimmy Lee was revered as a Christ figure and he wielded tremendous power over the lives of individual members in the group, including personally arranging marriages between members.
ROMANTIC LOVES AFFAIRS: If one fell in love with any girl outside the UBF member, such romantic affairs were considered evil and unspiritual by the group. If they found out that you were courting some girls, they would nail you to a wall, and yelled at you everyday, rebuking you by exposing all areas of your weaknesses. It’s a classical brainwashing technique used on prisoners of war. They got you to the breaking point and then they became your redeemers and rebuild you in the image they have for you. From this experiment, I came to know that they got a thrill out of the power they has over people’s lives. It’s a classical brainwashing technique used on prisoners of war.
UBF.CHICAGO CENTRE: According to Gillespie, spokesman for the Manitoba Cult Awareness Centre, "If they’re living with the group, it’s almost impossible to get them out, "Gillespie said. "A lot of people resort to forcibly pulling their kids from the centre of UBF." But according to Gordon Gillespie, spokesman for the Manitoba Cult Awareness Centre the group uses classic cult techniques to recruit its members; they are very professional and very well organized.
The Korean women usually approach young white male students, while they are joined by a man when approaching female. They seemed to go after people who look socially unsure of themselves. Gillespie said youth cults tend to attract thoughtful and idealistic young people, often at a time when they are searching for meaning in their lives. "That’s the sad thing, "he said, "These cults have always had an appeal to an intelligent type of person who wants to do something about society and the way it works."
"Its mean stuff and we’re just starting to hear more about it." Blanche Brauns, head of an anti-UBF lobby group in Chicago, said in a letter she sent to cult awareness groups that UBF practices appear to be Christian, but many people who have left it, including her son, have suffered psychological problems when re-entering society, especially those who did not receive exit-counseling and rehabilitation.
"From the outside, it appears to be very much a Christian group with Christian beliefs," she said. "But they twist the scriptures to suit themselves and their behavior and practices are abominable."
According to another mother who joined the lobby group after her son was taken in by UBF, the group leaders destroyed her son’s self-respect using guilt and confession tactics, eventually building themselves up as his saviors and gods." Pat was only in there for a short time," she said." But it still took five straight days to deprogram him. He had got to the point where he couldn’t do a thing without his shepherd’s permission. This is not a religious issue. This is mind control," She said.
DISASSOCIATED FROM UBF: Once I was informed to meet our Director Jimmy Lee and we had a long discussion for my future course of mission. He bluntly told me that I am getting married by faith not by choice and assured me that this is God’s direction. Although I had tried hard to bargain for getting married with my own choice, I was rather accused as contravening God’s will and His purpose on my life. Then I had no choice but to disassociate myself from the mission.
In conclusion, I would like to express my views on this controversial mission as many of my brethrens are still actively taking part in it. Not all religious faith is true or helpful which was already tested in the University Bible Fellowship. If there is mysticism that is sacred, there is also that which is profane. Therefore, we need cool-headed analyses and reasonable criteria to distinguish true faith from false, divine from demonic, genuine from bogus.
Otherwise, we will again put faith in gods who fail, mocking the noble vision of their followers who want to reconstruct a culture with beauty, and live with meaning, freedom and fulfillment. Religious ideology is foundational for social order. It either legitimizes a given social order or seeks to change.
Monday, October 8, 2007
Anonymous
(Originally posted at http://voy.com/60734/)
Date Posted: 19:07:42 03/05/04 Fri
Author: Anonymous
Subject: Deception and manipulation
In reply to: Chris 's message, "Remembering things in retrospect..." on
06:21:34 02/23/04 Mon
When I was in UBF, even as I started to listen to my own misgivings about UBF, I never entertained the idea that my "shepherd" might have been deliberately deceiving and manipulating me. However, the very day after I left UBF, my eyes started opening. Looking back on my UBF experience, I can now see that a lot purposeful deception and manipulation was involved. When I was in UBF, I believed that these things were the result of a misunderstanding between me and the UBF Korean "shepherd." I also heard other American "shepherds" saying that they had a "communication problem" or "misunderstanding" with their Korean "shepherd." I now believe that these weren't innocent misunderstandings going on. Rather, they were calculated acts of deception and manipulation.
I could write about a lot of instances of this deception. However, one series of events stands out in particular. I had recruited a Korean-American "sheep." Looking back, it seems that my UBF Korean "shepherd" had it in mind to make life hard for my "sheep" from the start. When I said "sheep" was just beginning his "Bible study," my "shepherd" called my "sheep" at home to argue with him and bully him around. My "shepherd's" explanation was, "Because he is Korean, he musta know about how great awah UBF ministree eez. I will teacha heem over phone."
From time to time, as my "sheep" continued his "Bible study," my "shepherd" would call him at home. My "shepherd" explained that he was "training" my "sheep," that my "sheep" was an "old Christian," that my "sheep" did not know God at all, that all Korean-Americans are "cultural Christians." My "sheep" confided in me that he felt very pressured and condemned by these phone calls. However, my "shepherd" continued to harass him over the telephone. I told my "shepherd" that I thought it wasn't a good idea to keep calling him and pressuring him. However, he continued to make the calls, prompting my "sheep" to ask me again to have the calls stopped. After a couple more calls, my "sheep" approached me and told me he wanted to discontinue the "Bible study." When I informed my "shepherd" of this, he said "Okay. Let him go. He does not want to study Bible. He is not true Christian."
Now, this "sheep" was a very honest and sincere Christian. Not in the least bit a "cultural Christian," not "rebellious," always faithful to keep appointments, etc. Looking back, I think he was a marked man from the time he first got into UBF, because of his ethnicity. I think it is most probable that my "shepherd" took it on himself to put excessive pressure on this "sheep" so that he would leave, and I would get a white American "sheep" instead. I remember being told on several occasions when all this was going on, "Race is not important. But next time, you would do better to get white American sheep." Also, the fact that when this "sheep" left, my "shepherd" said, "Okay, let him go," instead of trying to bully him into staying, means to me that my "shepherd" was glad to have this "sheep" off his hands. Maybe even he was told from higher up in the UBF ranks that this Korean-American sheep had to go....
Anyway, I'm glad my "sheep" left when he did, and I'm sorry for how he was abused by me and by my "shepherd." But there's an interesting twist to the end of this story. Several months after this "sheep" left, I had no "sheep." I was also starting to listen to my misgivings about UBF more. Then all of the sudden, my "shepherd" told me, "I saw brother Y on campus. You should call him to restore Bible study." (Brother Y here being my former "sheep.") I bet that my "shepherd" suddenly changed his tune because he reasoned, "Well, Shep. X doesn't have any sheep and hasn't been successful at fishing. He has too much time on his hands. I need to keep him busy with mindless activities so he doesn't leave UBF. I know, I'll tell him to restore Bible study with brother Y." (Here Shep. X is myself.)
Well, I've gone on long enough about that story. I'd be interested to see if any other former UBFers have similar experiences of deception and manipulation at the hands of UBF leaders. It's frightening to think how these UBF leaders purposefully and knowingly deceived and manipulated us. I never would have thought....
-- Anonymous ex-UBFer
Date Posted: 19:07:42 03/05/04 Fri
Author: Anonymous
Subject: Deception and manipulation
In reply to: Chris 's message, "Remembering things in retrospect..." on
06:21:34 02/23/04 Mon
When I was in UBF, even as I started to listen to my own misgivings about UBF, I never entertained the idea that my "shepherd" might have been deliberately deceiving and manipulating me. However, the very day after I left UBF, my eyes started opening. Looking back on my UBF experience, I can now see that a lot purposeful deception and manipulation was involved. When I was in UBF, I believed that these things were the result of a misunderstanding between me and the UBF Korean "shepherd." I also heard other American "shepherds" saying that they had a "communication problem" or "misunderstanding" with their Korean "shepherd." I now believe that these weren't innocent misunderstandings going on. Rather, they were calculated acts of deception and manipulation.
I could write about a lot of instances of this deception. However, one series of events stands out in particular. I had recruited a Korean-American "sheep." Looking back, it seems that my UBF Korean "shepherd" had it in mind to make life hard for my "sheep" from the start. When I said "sheep" was just beginning his "Bible study," my "shepherd" called my "sheep" at home to argue with him and bully him around. My "shepherd's" explanation was, "Because he is Korean, he musta know about how great awah UBF ministree eez. I will teacha heem over phone."
From time to time, as my "sheep" continued his "Bible study," my "shepherd" would call him at home. My "shepherd" explained that he was "training" my "sheep," that my "sheep" was an "old Christian," that my "sheep" did not know God at all, that all Korean-Americans are "cultural Christians." My "sheep" confided in me that he felt very pressured and condemned by these phone calls. However, my "shepherd" continued to harass him over the telephone. I told my "shepherd" that I thought it wasn't a good idea to keep calling him and pressuring him. However, he continued to make the calls, prompting my "sheep" to ask me again to have the calls stopped. After a couple more calls, my "sheep" approached me and told me he wanted to discontinue the "Bible study." When I informed my "shepherd" of this, he said "Okay. Let him go. He does not want to study Bible. He is not true Christian."
Now, this "sheep" was a very honest and sincere Christian. Not in the least bit a "cultural Christian," not "rebellious," always faithful to keep appointments, etc. Looking back, I think he was a marked man from the time he first got into UBF, because of his ethnicity. I think it is most probable that my "shepherd" took it on himself to put excessive pressure on this "sheep" so that he would leave, and I would get a white American "sheep" instead. I remember being told on several occasions when all this was going on, "Race is not important. But next time, you would do better to get white American sheep." Also, the fact that when this "sheep" left, my "shepherd" said, "Okay, let him go," instead of trying to bully him into staying, means to me that my "shepherd" was glad to have this "sheep" off his hands. Maybe even he was told from higher up in the UBF ranks that this Korean-American sheep had to go....
Anyway, I'm glad my "sheep" left when he did, and I'm sorry for how he was abused by me and by my "shepherd." But there's an interesting twist to the end of this story. Several months after this "sheep" left, I had no "sheep." I was also starting to listen to my misgivings about UBF more. Then all of the sudden, my "shepherd" told me, "I saw brother Y on campus. You should call him to restore Bible study." (Brother Y here being my former "sheep.") I bet that my "shepherd" suddenly changed his tune because he reasoned, "Well, Shep. X doesn't have any sheep and hasn't been successful at fishing. He has too much time on his hands. I need to keep him busy with mindless activities so he doesn't leave UBF. I know, I'll tell him to restore Bible study with brother Y." (Here Shep. X is myself.)
Well, I've gone on long enough about that story. I'd be interested to see if any other former UBFers have similar experiences of deception and manipulation at the hands of UBF leaders. It's frightening to think how these UBF leaders purposefully and knowingly deceived and manipulated us. I never would have thought....
-- Anonymous ex-UBFer
Wednesday, October 3, 2007
Vrai (former Baltimore UBF)
(Originally posted at http://voy.com/60734/)
Author: Vrai
Subject: Re: did you notice any strange behavior/teachngs?
I was only in the ubf for a year, but as I said after reading posts, and
previous experience, I did not like a lot I was seeing. Bible studies where
more dictation, with the sheperd already having the answers, in front of them.
I noticed a lot they where trying to get me to agree with their doctorine,
which I had fundemental problems with, which I will get to later.
I felt very presured if I would go to another church I would generally have
phone calls asking me where I was, was I okay (my parents do not bother me that
much). I saw a lot of people who were married by "faith." I felt the ubf
thought that they where the only way, no other christian organization bring
people to God other then the ubf. There is only one way to preach the gospel,
and that is through one to one bible study. I had one friend who would not go
to bible study (she had the same "sherperd" I had). The sheperd told me to
avoid her, and the sheperd would never talk to her. She was a close friend so I
ignored my sheperd.
Returning to the southern baptist church, it was like I never left many people
remembered me, however they where not pushy; they did not care that I left rather
they where glad to see me come back (there was no pressure). Southern Baptist
of course believe that teaching the bible is important, but they also
understand that you can preach the word through your action (building and
fixing house for those in need, outreach upward basketball, feeding
homless...). They also know that many other christian groups do the work of
God.
They (UBF) do not believe that in marriage by faith, we are free to have a boyfriend
or girlfriend. Many asked me what I was goind to do when I finish grad school;
they thought I should work for NASA. I felt like the only thing the ubf cared
about is making you into a missionary. They did not realize we are all
missionaries even to our own countries since we should living the God's word
everyday.
I think I could go on for hours, am I glad I left? yes, I did learn the
importance of learning God's word, and service through the ubf, but I do not
feel the ubf is an environment that either can truly be accomplished.
God bless
Author: Vrai
Subject: Re: did you notice any strange behavior/teachngs?
I was only in the ubf for a year, but as I said after reading posts, and
previous experience, I did not like a lot I was seeing. Bible studies where
more dictation, with the sheperd already having the answers, in front of them.
I noticed a lot they where trying to get me to agree with their doctorine,
which I had fundemental problems with, which I will get to later.
I felt very presured if I would go to another church I would generally have
phone calls asking me where I was, was I okay (my parents do not bother me that
much). I saw a lot of people who were married by "faith." I felt the ubf
thought that they where the only way, no other christian organization bring
people to God other then the ubf. There is only one way to preach the gospel,
and that is through one to one bible study. I had one friend who would not go
to bible study (she had the same "sherperd" I had). The sheperd told me to
avoid her, and the sheperd would never talk to her. She was a close friend so I
ignored my sheperd.
Returning to the southern baptist church, it was like I never left many people
remembered me, however they where not pushy; they did not care that I left rather
they where glad to see me come back (there was no pressure). Southern Baptist
of course believe that teaching the bible is important, but they also
understand that you can preach the word through your action (building and
fixing house for those in need, outreach upward basketball, feeding
homless...). They also know that many other christian groups do the work of
God.
They (UBF) do not believe that in marriage by faith, we are free to have a boyfriend
or girlfriend. Many asked me what I was goind to do when I finish grad school;
they thought I should work for NASA. I felt like the only thing the ubf cared
about is making you into a missionary. They did not realize we are all
missionaries even to our own countries since we should living the God's word
everyday.
I think I could go on for hours, am I glad I left? yes, I did learn the
importance of learning God's word, and service through the ubf, but I do not
feel the ubf is an environment that either can truly be accomplished.
God bless
Saturday, September 22, 2007
heart4jc (former Seoul UBF)
(Originally posted at http://voy.com/60734/)
Date Posted: 09:58:56 07/14/04 Wed
Author: heart4jc
Subject: Re: did you notice any strange behavior/teachngs?
In reply to: Nick T. 's message, "did you notice any strange behavior/teachngs?" on 16:52:39 07/13/04 Tue
I left yon-hee ubf in Korea in 2002. Seriously and literally Jesus helped me get out of there. I had been praying for so hard for His instruction and guidance. In UBF, I was like Samson whose eyes were pulled and bounded by bronze shackles and grinding in the prison.
To get out, I prayed like him as well "O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes," He listened to my prayer. Praise to the Lord.
After much confusion and agonizing time, I learned that my ignorance and unfaithfulness to Jesus led me to UBF. I learned of my hopelessness. Only through Jesus could I ever come near to God. Now, I am in Grace, Peace, and Joy in the gospel. Not until i left UBF that I learned of the TRUE gospel.
Date Posted: 09:58:56 07/14/04 Wed
Author: heart4jc
Subject: Re: did you notice any strange behavior/teachngs?
In reply to: Nick T. 's message, "did you notice any strange behavior/teachngs?" on 16:52:39 07/13/04 Tue
I left yon-hee ubf in Korea in 2002. Seriously and literally Jesus helped me get out of there. I had been praying for so hard for His instruction and guidance. In UBF, I was like Samson whose eyes were pulled and bounded by bronze shackles and grinding in the prison.
To get out, I prayed like him as well "O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes," He listened to my prayer. Praise to the Lord.
After much confusion and agonizing time, I learned that my ignorance and unfaithfulness to Jesus led me to UBF. I learned of my hopelessness. Only through Jesus could I ever come near to God. Now, I am in Grace, Peace, and Joy in the gospel. Not until i left UBF that I learned of the TRUE gospel.
Thursday, September 20, 2007
Anonymous (akktri.livejournal.com)
(From http://akktri.livejournal.com/254869.html)
Samuel C. Lee dies in fire
Samuel C. Lee, the head honcho of the University Bible Fellowship organization died in 2002. I just now found out about it, since I left them around 2001 or 2000.
One word: Kookoo.
I just heard a seminar on the faults of the organization. They talked about Confucianism's influence on them, which I haven't noticed, but more importantly, they reminded me of things that slipped by me without me even noticing.
When I joined the organization, I went meekly along with the flow, so I never experienced the physical abuse I've heard about coming from the UBF. I guess abuse was part of the "training" to be UBF "shepherds."
Also, being socially maladroit, I also missed out on their "arranged marriages."
The things I DID notice:
1. I seem to remember being pestered with questions and statements on God's will for me when I didn't want to go to a conference or Sunday meeting or bible study. I often felt I needed a good excuse to get out of it.
2. What caused me to leave was that they argued, from the book of James, that I needed to reach out with good works, to God, in order for God to reach out with His grace. They said that other denominations were "lazy" for believing that they were saved by grace through faith alone.
3. Koreans dominated the organization, even in places like Africa and the United States where the Korean population is slim.
4. "Shepherds" of the organization appeared to be cut from the same cookie-cutter mold. They all tried to behave exactly alike. They dressed the same, taught lessons the same, wrote the same stuff. They'd wear suits even to informal summer gatherings.
5. The bible was presented to me in a menu of lessons, and there was a sense of progression, even advancement, through these lessons. You went through a program rather than doing a special study on Revelation independently or by group consensus. Guys that had been there awhile would be on Revelation while I was in Genesis and they'd comment on my progress.
6. I and other members were strongly encouraged to give a sermonnette/"testimony" about a bible passage at conferences. No one opted out. Nobody.
7. I was strongly encouraged to conform my writings ("testimonies" or Sodong) to a set formula, which included a "one word" statement on the end. I thought it was a lousy idea, but I went along with it. It seemed like they had to be sort of confessional in nature, too.
8. Alternate interpretations of bible passages were strongly discouraged, without any scriptural evidence to support the position. Noah Rhee would often say "I'm sorry, but I believe the correct interpretation is..." So a fresh perspective was ruled out.
9. I never found out where the donation money went. I kinda guessed it went into all those huge feasts they'd have there, with authentic Korean food, but I wasn't sure. Not until I heard the seminar on the UBF, which told me that Samuel Lee had hidden the bank books and even used the money for land acquisition for UBF expansion in some country. Apparently, they have never been audited because the group has been good at hiding the books. I heard money designated for helping the poor in Bangladesh ended up being funds for setting up a chapter of UBF in Bangladesh.
10. University professors were described as "Satan in human disguise." This is an unhealthy position to take when you're trying to spread the gospel to all people.
11. There was a strong emphasis on John Calvin in the devotionals. Noah even named his kid Calvin. This has a lot to do with the predestination and the "Satan in human garb" argument.
12. They go to specific individuals and pester them into bringing people to meetings rather than speaking generally to the group. Never before had I been so extremely pressured to bring someone to a bible meeting.
13. No baptismal font, communion shared only at conferences. But I just assumed they were non-denoms like Youth For Christ.
14. When you took a retreat to somewhere like California or Michigan, you didn't get to tour the city and share the gospel to people in town. Rather, you stayed in the compound the whole time, working on your testimonies.
15. Instead of a variety of spiritual gifts being emphasised, they focused on evangelism. Other gifts were minimized. Everyone was expected to "fish" on campus for students.
16. There was a hierarchy. You were expected to lead one-to-one bible studies with other students (I tried this via e-mail with a Thai student and was unsuccessful), while still attending Noah's one-to-one bible study.
17. You were encouraged to attend their services on Sunday, even if you already went to church earlier that day. They said it wasn't like church, but they lied. It was exactly like church. You sat in hard chairs, listened to sermons and sang. The only difference was the feast that happened afterwards. You will not be surprised that I did not put much in the offering plate.
Samuel C. Lee dies in fire
Samuel C. Lee, the head honcho of the University Bible Fellowship organization died in 2002. I just now found out about it, since I left them around 2001 or 2000.
One word: Kookoo.
I just heard a seminar on the faults of the organization. They talked about Confucianism's influence on them, which I haven't noticed, but more importantly, they reminded me of things that slipped by me without me even noticing.
When I joined the organization, I went meekly along with the flow, so I never experienced the physical abuse I've heard about coming from the UBF. I guess abuse was part of the "training" to be UBF "shepherds."
Also, being socially maladroit, I also missed out on their "arranged marriages."
The things I DID notice:
1. I seem to remember being pestered with questions and statements on God's will for me when I didn't want to go to a conference or Sunday meeting or bible study. I often felt I needed a good excuse to get out of it.
2. What caused me to leave was that they argued, from the book of James, that I needed to reach out with good works, to God, in order for God to reach out with His grace. They said that other denominations were "lazy" for believing that they were saved by grace through faith alone.
3. Koreans dominated the organization, even in places like Africa and the United States where the Korean population is slim.
4. "Shepherds" of the organization appeared to be cut from the same cookie-cutter mold. They all tried to behave exactly alike. They dressed the same, taught lessons the same, wrote the same stuff. They'd wear suits even to informal summer gatherings.
5. The bible was presented to me in a menu of lessons, and there was a sense of progression, even advancement, through these lessons. You went through a program rather than doing a special study on Revelation independently or by group consensus. Guys that had been there awhile would be on Revelation while I was in Genesis and they'd comment on my progress.
6. I and other members were strongly encouraged to give a sermonnette/"testimony" about a bible passage at conferences. No one opted out. Nobody.
7. I was strongly encouraged to conform my writings ("testimonies" or Sodong) to a set formula, which included a "one word" statement on the end. I thought it was a lousy idea, but I went along with it. It seemed like they had to be sort of confessional in nature, too.
8. Alternate interpretations of bible passages were strongly discouraged, without any scriptural evidence to support the position. Noah Rhee would often say "I'm sorry, but I believe the correct interpretation is..." So a fresh perspective was ruled out.
9. I never found out where the donation money went. I kinda guessed it went into all those huge feasts they'd have there, with authentic Korean food, but I wasn't sure. Not until I heard the seminar on the UBF, which told me that Samuel Lee had hidden the bank books and even used the money for land acquisition for UBF expansion in some country. Apparently, they have never been audited because the group has been good at hiding the books. I heard money designated for helping the poor in Bangladesh ended up being funds for setting up a chapter of UBF in Bangladesh.
10. University professors were described as "Satan in human disguise." This is an unhealthy position to take when you're trying to spread the gospel to all people.
11. There was a strong emphasis on John Calvin in the devotionals. Noah even named his kid Calvin. This has a lot to do with the predestination and the "Satan in human garb" argument.
12. They go to specific individuals and pester them into bringing people to meetings rather than speaking generally to the group. Never before had I been so extremely pressured to bring someone to a bible meeting.
13. No baptismal font, communion shared only at conferences. But I just assumed they were non-denoms like Youth For Christ.
14. When you took a retreat to somewhere like California or Michigan, you didn't get to tour the city and share the gospel to people in town. Rather, you stayed in the compound the whole time, working on your testimonies.
15. Instead of a variety of spiritual gifts being emphasised, they focused on evangelism. Other gifts were minimized. Everyone was expected to "fish" on campus for students.
16. There was a hierarchy. You were expected to lead one-to-one bible studies with other students (I tried this via e-mail with a Thai student and was unsuccessful), while still attending Noah's one-to-one bible study.
17. You were encouraged to attend their services on Sunday, even if you already went to church earlier that day. They said it wasn't like church, but they lied. It was exactly like church. You sat in hard chairs, listened to sermons and sang. The only difference was the feast that happened afterwards. You will not be surprised that I did not put much in the offering plate.
Wednesday, September 19, 2007
Egon S. (former Estonia UBF)
(Originally posted at http://www.voy.com/60734/ by Egon S., a former member of a UBF chapter in Estonia.)
Date Posted: 08:19:14 08/10/02 Sat
Author: Egon S.
Subject: Re: Love your enemy
Dear Chris and others!
I think we have the same mind even in this question. I am agree with You and Mike. I just could not express my thoughts. Look at your own comment and the last one (Mike's one). You needed pretty much "paper" for explaining it. I tried to be short, but You and Mike did it better and I say Amen on it. I am honest - I too think so. And I am strict. I have talked with my leaders when I have seen that things are not as they should have been. We can't compromise with the Word.
Neither I said that Samuel Lee or Sarah Barry were our enemys. I just said what Jesus said and tried to emphasize the attitude toward others what God is waiting from us.
What I thought about that "critisizm" was that often christians fall into it and stay there, rather than seeking the Lord. In our neighbourhood there is a strongly charismatic church. It's pastor is young but very very strong character (I would say, a little bit like SL). And people who leave that church, are so wounded in their hearts. I deal with them. I know the pain they have for I have been under such dictatorship. I know what it means when your respected leaders have painted you a picture that God is a brutal dictator who has no mercy, no grace.
(Let me describe you the picture of God what I had in the days of UBF. My brother was marrying. But at the same weekend there was a celebration in the Latvian (neigbour country) UBF chapter. They had bought a building in Riga and opened it publicly. From Moscow and other CIS countries shepherds came and we had to go too. I knew the date and I knew that my brother marries at the same time. And I knew what would happen if I tell my choice. So kept it secret until the friday. Next day was wedding and we had to leave to Riga. So I decided to disobey to my shepherd and for me this was disobeying to God himself. And I disobeyed. I did not go to Riga. The next day we had to drive from one town to another for 34 km to get to the wedding. And I was so, so afraid, that God causes a car accident, brakes my legs or something more serious to teach me obedience.
Is it really God of the Bible? I had that picture of Him.) Now the problem is that many of these people who have left that particular church physically years ago, are in their thoughts still there. Whenever you meet them, they complain, critisize the pastor and his actions. And they argue with him in their thoughts too. The result is that they never forget, never forgive and because of this never grow. And this is sad.
I read Nick's comment too and it's really disgusting what UBF leaders have done. I did not know that. It's disgusting. SL has gone and he must pay for that. But what's our task? To forgive, says Jesus. Yes, we are not agree with what they are still doing. We say NO to it, but in our hearts we must forgive the injustice we have received. Otherwise we can't grow.
When I run away, I just sought Jesus, lived with him, grew in healthy environment, tried to forget, tried to forgive (many, many times) and Jesus came and healed me. I did not feel pain any more when thinkig of UBF. And what was more amazing, I started to love these people whom I had hated for the pain they had caused me. Was it me? No. But Jesus in me. He condemns their (and our) sins but He loves them (and us). He won't compromise with His will, but still he loves them. It was amazing for me, but I loved them again!
And there's another aspect about that "criticism" what I thought when writing my previous comment. Another illustration to explain it. Some years ago while serving in the pentecostal church we were all so busy that we had staff meeting just once in one-two months. And do you know what happened when we met? We argued. Everybody had lived his own life, thought their own thoughts, found their own answers and solutions... And when we had to discuss about the problems, we all had different opinions. So every time we met we spent some 2-3 hours just to find out some basement to build on. Not very good use of time. But at least we were one minded when we left each other. So we decided to meet very regularily. And when coming together we already were one minded and the time was blessed.
The same is here in forum. We rarely know each other. We have grown up in different environments, in differnt denominations, listened different sermons and read different books. All these things affect our life. We just read some lines and then make a decision: this guy is correct or this guy is wrong. But look, if you tell someone something, then the next things could be very different:
1. What you wanted to say
2. What you actually said
3. What the other person heard
4. What the other person wanted to hear.
5. Then there are these words you thought but did not say.
In estonian local forums christians are sometimes so critical. They don't look for good things, they just seek errors and faults (in fact critisism is the desease of estonians. We critisize everybody everywhere. And there is a saying that estonian's best food is another estonian. So pray for us)
So what I wanted to say, was that whatever the UBF leaders have done, if we can correct, correct. If we can't, pray God's mercy on them. But in our hearts we need to forgive them.
And I am happy, that Chris and Mike could put in words what I wasn't able to. And the Bible says that whenever christians come together (even in the forums) then everybody has something (to give, to share...) which is blessing for others. If God has given something to You, Chris (or to You Mike) then not only for You, but also for me. But to me He gives it through You.
And so we build up the body of Christ.
God bless you.
Egon
Date Posted: 08:19:14 08/10/02 Sat
Author: Egon S.
Subject: Re: Love your enemy
Dear Chris and others!
I think we have the same mind even in this question. I am agree with You and Mike. I just could not express my thoughts. Look at your own comment and the last one (Mike's one). You needed pretty much "paper" for explaining it. I tried to be short, but You and Mike did it better and I say Amen on it. I am honest - I too think so. And I am strict. I have talked with my leaders when I have seen that things are not as they should have been. We can't compromise with the Word.
Neither I said that Samuel Lee or Sarah Barry were our enemys. I just said what Jesus said and tried to emphasize the attitude toward others what God is waiting from us.
What I thought about that "critisizm" was that often christians fall into it and stay there, rather than seeking the Lord. In our neighbourhood there is a strongly charismatic church. It's pastor is young but very very strong character (I would say, a little bit like SL). And people who leave that church, are so wounded in their hearts. I deal with them. I know the pain they have for I have been under such dictatorship. I know what it means when your respected leaders have painted you a picture that God is a brutal dictator who has no mercy, no grace.
(Let me describe you the picture of God what I had in the days of UBF. My brother was marrying. But at the same weekend there was a celebration in the Latvian (neigbour country) UBF chapter. They had bought a building in Riga and opened it publicly. From Moscow and other CIS countries shepherds came and we had to go too. I knew the date and I knew that my brother marries at the same time. And I knew what would happen if I tell my choice. So kept it secret until the friday. Next day was wedding and we had to leave to Riga. So I decided to disobey to my shepherd and for me this was disobeying to God himself. And I disobeyed. I did not go to Riga. The next day we had to drive from one town to another for 34 km to get to the wedding. And I was so, so afraid, that God causes a car accident, brakes my legs or something more serious to teach me obedience.
Is it really God of the Bible? I had that picture of Him.) Now the problem is that many of these people who have left that particular church physically years ago, are in their thoughts still there. Whenever you meet them, they complain, critisize the pastor and his actions. And they argue with him in their thoughts too. The result is that they never forget, never forgive and because of this never grow. And this is sad.
I read Nick's comment too and it's really disgusting what UBF leaders have done. I did not know that. It's disgusting. SL has gone and he must pay for that. But what's our task? To forgive, says Jesus. Yes, we are not agree with what they are still doing. We say NO to it, but in our hearts we must forgive the injustice we have received. Otherwise we can't grow.
When I run away, I just sought Jesus, lived with him, grew in healthy environment, tried to forget, tried to forgive (many, many times) and Jesus came and healed me. I did not feel pain any more when thinkig of UBF. And what was more amazing, I started to love these people whom I had hated for the pain they had caused me. Was it me? No. But Jesus in me. He condemns their (and our) sins but He loves them (and us). He won't compromise with His will, but still he loves them. It was amazing for me, but I loved them again!
And there's another aspect about that "criticism" what I thought when writing my previous comment. Another illustration to explain it. Some years ago while serving in the pentecostal church we were all so busy that we had staff meeting just once in one-two months. And do you know what happened when we met? We argued. Everybody had lived his own life, thought their own thoughts, found their own answers and solutions... And when we had to discuss about the problems, we all had different opinions. So every time we met we spent some 2-3 hours just to find out some basement to build on. Not very good use of time. But at least we were one minded when we left each other. So we decided to meet very regularily. And when coming together we already were one minded and the time was blessed.
The same is here in forum. We rarely know each other. We have grown up in different environments, in differnt denominations, listened different sermons and read different books. All these things affect our life. We just read some lines and then make a decision: this guy is correct or this guy is wrong. But look, if you tell someone something, then the next things could be very different:
1. What you wanted to say
2. What you actually said
3. What the other person heard
4. What the other person wanted to hear.
5. Then there are these words you thought but did not say.
In estonian local forums christians are sometimes so critical. They don't look for good things, they just seek errors and faults (in fact critisism is the desease of estonians. We critisize everybody everywhere. And there is a saying that estonian's best food is another estonian. So pray for us)
So what I wanted to say, was that whatever the UBF leaders have done, if we can correct, correct. If we can't, pray God's mercy on them. But in our hearts we need to forgive them.
And I am happy, that Chris and Mike could put in words what I wasn't able to. And the Bible says that whenever christians come together (even in the forums) then everybody has something (to give, to share...) which is blessing for others. If God has given something to You, Chris (or to You Mike) then not only for You, but also for me. But to me He gives it through You.
And so we build up the body of Christ.
God bless you.
Egon
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